Byakhiam said:
How about also making Navarra nonaligned, as it had a fiercely independent pre-Roman population…
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How about also making Navarra nonaligned, as it had a fiercely independent pre-Roman population…
Byakhiam said:
But it would be just the opposite way. Navarra would be a small kingdom surrounded by three giants: France, Aragon and Castilla. In fact, that would be exactly the same as Wales in the British Islands. Can't see the difference there.
general_ said:
Then it should be only one province that's nonaligned: Navarra. Vizcaya was part of Castilla most of the time, just as Rioja. And most of the territories in Labourd were french.
The Phoenix said:
Wales is only area in whole British Isles who didn't control Man at some point. It was historically vassal of Dublin, Norway, Scotland and England. There is no cultural or other historical reasons to add Man into kingdom of Wales. None/Western Isles is most historical setup for Man. Wales had it's own princes, who were theoretically rulers of Wales. Like in Ireland there was High Kings, who theoretically were above other Irish kings.
On the subject of the Moors:
Ergo, it would seem that it might be acceptable to include Granada in the "Mooritanian" default area - it would be a Moorish kingdom, unless I've missed something about the cultural makeup in northwestern Africa (in which case I'll cower and avoid this specific topic from now on), and Granada should certainly qualify as "Moorish".Wikipedia said:
The Phoenix said:
1) Man wasn't associated with Wales.
2) Wales isn't semi-fantasy. There were more than one Welsh prince to hold the whole Wales. See for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llywelyn_the_Great
general_ said:
The territory was held by Castile and / or Aragon at various points of CK timeframe. Don't mix Basque-nationalism with medieval realities.
tommassi said:
You rightly address France as a giant. However, Aragon and Castilla in their current configuration are barely medium-sized kingdoms and there are two small kingdoms (Portugal and Leon) in Iberia already too.
The Phoenix said:
The point is that Granada did NOT have any connection to North Africa whatsoever as a kingdom. So I still think it's odd to try to build a kingdom with Granada and northern Africa. IMO, either they're nonaligned, or they're part of Castilla (which is what makes the best sense to me).
The Phoenix said:
These are not nation states however, whose borders are defined by culture. These are medieval realms based on history and geography.
Byakhiam said:
There was always archbishop of Cracovia (Kraków)
(but you can't create it in cenario, because it was also capital of Poland since 1038
. )Lesser Poland isn't so wrong, but it's modern name. Now we can say that somebody ruled Malopolska, but in Medieval nobody using this form.
Lesser Poland in XI century is not so historically correct, but it's only game
Greater Poland and Lesser Poland sound nice so it can be
Duke of Kujawy said:
You are right. But 2 provs is too small, so Lesser Poland is the best way...
BTW. Sandomiersk was corrected in 1.05. Now it's Sandomierz (right form)
Byakhiam said:
I guess Navarra is gone for good, then
o (If my girlfriend, who's from Navarra, makes me the scapegoat for her complaints, you're to blame
)
I just did a little province-counting, and I think we could add a "Samoed" kingdom in the northernmost Russian territory (above the Volga) - I count 13 provinces there, i.e. as many as in Africa.
As this may seem conflicting with previous comments by me on that area, here are my preferences:
1) Separate "Samoed"/"Samic" kingdom OR part of Finland
2) Part of Russia
3) NONE (highly undesirable)
As this may seem conflicting with previous comments by me on that area, here are my preferences:
1) Separate "Samoed"/"Samic" kingdom OR part of Finland
2) Part of Russia
3) NONE (highly undesirable)
Just trying to offer alternatives to the horrible void that is an abomination unto Nuggan...Byakhiam said:These are not nation states however, whose borders are defined by culture. These are medieval realms based on history and geography.
Like Grosshaus voiced earlier in this thread, becoming a king of Frozen Tundra whose principal population is reindeers is rather comical. Africa holds many wealthy and populous provinces, Russia north of Volga holds endless tundra. I don't mind it being part of Finland, as a huge kingdom of Forgotten Wastelands, but we have had conflicting views of that as well.
On the question of Rome and duchies:
What I've done is eliminate the Marches duchy - which doesn't seem to have any historical basis (Ancona only independent margraves for the first half of the 12th century, and one was concurrently Duke of Spoleto; and Urbino was only a duchy from 1474 on) - and give its provinces to Spoleto. Orvieto is then transferred to a new duchy that comprises Rome and Orvieto.
It solves the issue of no duchy at Rome without doing any great violence to either history (Orvieto is associated with the Papal States in all three scenarios) or geography.
What I've done is eliminate the Marches duchy - which doesn't seem to have any historical basis (Ancona only independent margraves for the first half of the 12th century, and one was concurrently Duke of Spoleto; and Urbino was only a duchy from 1474 on) - and give its provinces to Spoleto. Orvieto is then transferred to a new duchy that comprises Rome and Orvieto.
It solves the issue of no duchy at Rome without doing any great violence to either history (Orvieto is associated with the Papal States in all three scenarios) or geography.
The Phoenix said:
Interesting. While it is a nice idea, I think Byakhiam is right. However I would still strongly suggest placing that region into the Kingdom of Finland, rather than Rus.
Ayeshteni
Seems my reply didn't appear...Ayeshteni said:
Basically, I agree with Finland getting the land there (as any kingdom of Bjarmia/whatever would be the clown of kingdoms); at least, the ones bordering the White Sea (duchy of Bjarmia). At the very least, the first two provinces of that duchy.
On the topic of Kingdom of Cuman and "Romania":
http://euratlas.com/big/big1100.htm
http://euratlas.com/big/big1200.htm
It's pretty clear the Cumans had a staying presence there. If they had been converted to Christianity, they would probably have formed a kingdom in the yellow blob area.
I say: include Moldau and Wallachia in the Kingdom of Cuman.
http://euratlas.com/big/big1100.htm
http://euratlas.com/big/big1200.htm
It's pretty clear the Cumans had a staying presence there. If they had been converted to Christianity, they would probably have formed a kingdom in the yellow blob area.
I say: include Moldau and Wallachia in the Kingdom of Cuman.
Ayeshteni said:
Historically Norhernmost Russia which was inhabited by Samoyeds had no contact at all to Finland. According to Viking sagas Bjarmians were most Eastern Finnish people. Bjarmia or Bjarmaland is general term for shores of the White Sea. Bjarmians were most likely ancestors of some East Karelians (who live in modern Republic of Karelia in Russian Federation.)
Map shows areas inhabited by Karelians:
East from that (in modern Arkhangelsk Oblast), were Samoyed populations, who aren't related to Finns or Sames (even when they use Lappish culture in CK). And huge parts of the area were more or less uninhabited. Finno-Ugric and Samoyed languages are very distantly related, but there was no cultural connections between Karelians and Samoyeds (I asked this from my professor, who lectured about pre-history and history of the Karelians.)
Areas where Samoyeds live:
I'd like to see that area remain "Rus", since well, I don't really ever want to see a unified Kingdom of Rus. It took the Russians a LONG, LONG while after CK ends to finally form a unified Mother Russia, and I'd like to see it stay that way. Making it harder to create the Russian Empire is fine and dandy with me.
Now about Granada...
I see all sides of the issue. I just want to see a Granada Kingdom in Iberia. Which leads to my next question. When this is all implemented, could we have a list of "available" Duke-level and King-level tags?
Now about Granada...
I see all sides of the issue. I just want to see a Granada Kingdom in Iberia. Which leads to my next question. When this is all implemented, could we have a list of "available" Duke-level and King-level tags?