Claim cultural union

[Antiphates]

What if we could claim to be the cultural union of a specific culture group without forming some other country?
This wouldn't have been such a unlikely scenario in reality had, say, a horde reunited the steppe.

I'm thinking this would be quite a feat, not just something done with the flick of a wrist.

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General requirements and effects might be:
- Must own and have cores on a certain precentage of that cultural group's regions (Say 75, 90 or maybe even 100%)

- Your primary culture must be in the group you're claiming to be the union of

- Maybe even adopter certain ideas? (Looking at you, humanist)

- -4 stability, after all your primary culture might be upset at losing their spot in the sun

- lose some prestige

- Perhaps you could even claim to be the union of groups other than your own primary culture? If so then the requirements should be even harsher.

- It might take some time, much like westernization, and cost a few monarch points. I'm thinking either lose 200 adm & dip in one go and gain the union after for example 5 year, or much like vassal annexion/westernization lose some points every month and gain the union when enough points are spent/ enough time has passed. Some unrest during that time might add a little extra tension

- of course, all cultures in the group will now be accepted as they view you as their cultural union

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What do you think? Feel free to discuss.

 

[Sousuke123]

I'm all for it cause it's sadass looking sight seeing Burgundy to kill France only to turn into them very next month. However instead of having % of land , it should be required to own all important cities of every culture in given culture group.

 

[Anatur]

I would personally love if it a certain nation controled 90% of the same culture groups provinces then it automatically became that cultures union.

For example France would easily become a cultural union from all the French provinces after it finished kicking out all the competition while Muscovy would have to work its way up to Russia level to rightfully claim all the ukranians and belarusians.

 

[Reverend Belial]

I was just thinking about this the other day actually, and I think it would be an excellent idea to be able to take a decision to become a cultural union for cultures that don't have one already. It would make playing in China loads easier too if you don't want to play as Ming or Qing.

 

[Incompetent]

I like this idea. You should only be able to do it for your primary culture group though, and you should only be able to claim it if you are the only country left in your culture group and the usual union tags for that group don't exist. Also, tags that already come with a cultural union should not be allowed to take the decision, to stop double cultural union shenanigans. (On a similar note, culture-shifting to a different group should automatically get rid of any cultural unions you have - I don't know if this is currently the case.)

If you qualify for the decision though, I don't think you need lots of additional penalties. After all, if you own all the land of your primary culture group, then usually in Europe at least you can choose to form some cultural union tag (Spain, France, GB, Germany, Italy, Scandinavia, Russia...). Being able to retain your original tag while forming the cultural union would be a nice touch though.

 

[Reverend Belial]

Also, tags that already come with a cultural union should not be allowed to take the decision, to stop double cultural union shenanigans.

I think the one exception to that rule should be the Chinese group, to allow for dynamic Dynasties to spring up.

 

[Incompetent]

I think the one exception to that rule should be the Chinese group, to allow for dynamic Dynasties to spring up.

Maybe, but then you should still have to give up your old cultural union. If some great horde unifies all the Altaic countries, forms a cultural union and then takes over all of China, they should have to decide whether they want to be Chinese. (Consider the cultural struggles of the Yuan dynasty, for instance; by contrast the Manchus assimilated a lot more into Chinese culture.) Having union over both at once is just too much.

 

[Reverend Belial]

Maybe, but then you should still have to give up your old cultural union. If some great horde unifies all the Altaic countries, forms a cultural union and then takes over all of China, they should have to decide whether they want to be Chinese. (Consider the cultural struggles of the Yuan dynasty, for instance; by contrast the Manchus assimilated a lot more into Chinese culture.) Having union over both at once is just too much.

Well yeah, obviously. I was only talking about the "if no union exists" restriction.

 

[Topias]

Considering that the devs are going to change forming countries for 1.14 so that you can either choose to keep your old national ideas or accept the new set, I doubt they'll go this way. While I don't think OP's idea is bad, it seems to more likely to me that we'll instead get new formables that are cultural unions. Not to say that this is actually likely to happen either, just more likely than the suggested alternative.

I'm a bit conflicted on the issue overall. On one hand, it's a bit a silly to not be able to become a cultural union even after bringing an entire cultural group under your flag and prospering. You could say it's ahistorical, but the game already is about creating alternate history. On the other, I don't think that yellow font color should be dreaded and seen as something inferior to accepted but rather a step up from unaccepted. It represents a degree of acceptance and familiarity, which makes sense for the situation. It already is a union of sorts.

 

[Antiphates]

I've come up with an alternate route after reading your posts. Perhaps the union even could fire as an event and not be up to the player?

Something like:
- Own 90% of the culture group
- No unrest
- No autonomy
- MTTH 60 months

Alternatively the player could innitiate the event via decision when the first 3 requrements are met, get some flag "desires cultural union" and maybe some flavour events, and only when this decision is passed the MTTH for the actual event will start ticking?
Also I don't see the problem with two unions co-existing. Much like say, Andalusia and Spain, they would just be rivals (most likely) trying to get dominon over the same area. Of course no silly double-union-of-same-group.