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Schlieffen

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Ok, it's discussion time.

I know that we have a lot of new faces to this kind of RPG, but there's been a distinct lack of in-character posting, even after the king's court opened. I suspect that players are posting orders to avoid getting booted because they like the idea of the game and want to play, but aren't sure about what they can/should be doing so they're sitting quietly at the sides waiting for some prompting. It's fine if this is the case, but I need you guys to tell me what the problem is, what you'd like to be doing, etc. so I can get things running.


I want to hear your opinions (everyone's opinion ;)), but right now I'm considering the following:

First, I'd like to have the following events take place in the next few turns. Players can send diplomats to petition the king in the mean time instead of being there personally.
  • Several neighboring realms will stop paying tribute. One or two may even outright plan to invade.
  • A potential rebellion in response to the new taxation that's going to start soon.
  • The death of a bishop or two.

Second, I'd like to make the following mechanical changes to make things a little more busy. This might be accompanied by switching increasing to three turns a week, but I feel like that might be a bit much.
  • Encourage current players to create an additional character.
  • Remove the order limit. Instead, you receive a [-] modifier for every extra order you take. Movement & moving within a province are both free.
  • Allow players to spend multiple turns on an order for a bonus, which will let players aim for more difficult orders if they're willing to invest some time.
  • Movement orders are limited like normal orders in terms of area, so you can move 2 provinces at a time instead of anywhere. (Yes @BlackCrown, you were doing it wrong. :D)

Third, I need to be better about explaining how things work. I'm kind of learning things as I go along too, but as the guy who gets to make things up, it's kind of my job to make sure players aren't confused.



So thoughts, concerns? I'm pretty sure most people here want to make this work, and I need to know what's not working for you to help with that. :)
 

DragonOfAtlantis

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I agree with you on all your points, and to be absolutely frank, I’ve just not done IC because I am terrible at it and don’t really know what to do in it. I’m really not sure what to say or do in the posts. It doesn’t help that in a lot of other games and rp I’ve done I was always quiet for the most part. Just keep at it Schlieffen, I hope things get better as we all get used to the RPG and get settled.
 

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Ok, it's discussion time.

I know that we have a lot of new faces to this kind of RPG, but there's been a distinct lack of in-character posting, even after the king's court opened. I suspect that players are posting orders to avoid getting booted because they like the idea of the game and want to play, but aren't sure about what they can/should be doing so they're sitting quietly at the sides waiting for some prompting. It's fine if this is the case, but I need you guys to tell me what the problem is, what you'd like to be doing, etc. so I can get things running.


I want to hear your opinions (everyone's opinion ;)), but right now I'm considering the following:

First, I'd like to have the following events take place in the next few turns. Players can send diplomats to petition the king in the mean time instead of being there personally.
  • Several neighboring realms will stop paying tribute. One or two may even outright plan to invade.
  • A potential rebellion in response to the new taxation that's going to start soon.
  • The death of a bishop or two.

Second, I'd like to make the following mechanical changes to make things a little more busy. This might be accompanied by switching increasing to three turns a week, but I feel like that might be a bit much.
  • Encourage current players to create an additional character.
  • Remove the order limit. Instead, you receive a [-] modifier for every extra order you take. Movement & moving within a province are both free.
  • Allow players to spend multiple turns on an order for a bonus, which will let players aim for more difficult orders if they're willing to invest some time.
  • Movement orders are limited like normal orders in terms of area, so you can move 2 provinces at a time instead of anywhere. (Yes @BlackCrown, you were doing it wrong. :D)

Third, I need to be better about explaining how things work. I'm kind of learning things as I go along too, but as the guy who gets to make things up, it's kind of my job to make sure players aren't confused.



So thoughts, concerns? I'm pretty sure most people here want to make this work, and I need to know what's not working for you to help with that. :)
I agree with you on potential direction. I try to find an another character, but rather designed about marrying someone from other family in hope of extending my dynasty to next generation. I'll gladly move there or elsewhere in playing my major character, but I actually I desire for focusing on my property myself. I know that I do weird things sometime.
I also think somewhat limited with strict order limit, just because that kind of orders prevents me from doing something in my desired direction.
 

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You are partly right, at least with me, Schlieffen. I have not been sure what I can/should do so I have just been waiting for others to post something and then follow the example. (Although life has been such a roller coaster lately that it is the second reason why I have not done many ICs).

The game's good, nothing wrong with it. And I really like those changes to the mechanics, gives more freedom to do things.

I promise to write couple of ICs this weekend, now that I got time and ideas. One question to make sure I won't write my IC to the wrong place: I can talk directly to the King in "the Royal Court of King Æthelheard", right?
 

Schlieffen

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One question to make sure I won't write my IC to the wrong place: I can talk directly to the King in "the Royal Court of King Æthelheard", right?
Yep. At least at the moment, it might be more appropriate to think of it as an informal gathering rather than a proper court proceeding, if only because it's more friendly for players talking to each other and the king.
 

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It may be weird question, but may I follow you, Schlieffen?
 

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I do think that the new rules would make things more flexible, though the 2 province moving thing might make things just take longer
 
Last edited:

Schlieffen

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I do think that the new rules would make things more flexible, though the 2 province moving thing might make things just take longer
This is actually a deliberate design decision: Ideally, I'd much rather have character actions be a slow burn than a serious of rapid actions.

There are a few reasons for this. First, I like the idea of smaller-but-more-frequent turns: It's more lenient for less active players (Missing a +1 order is less devastating than missing a +5 order), it's better for letting players change directions on the fly, it "feels" more alive/active because of the more frequent feedback, etc.

Second, every storyline/scheme/etc. is going to stall from time to time as players wait for orders to go through, wait on other players' replies, etc. If a player only has one thing going on this will translate into them frequently just sitting around, so I'm making it so player actions require that downtime encourages them to start other plots while waiting on results.
 

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Name: Artair
Age: late teens-early twenties
House: Winchester
Earldoms: Winchester and Berks (Would be cool to know if they have different names at this point in the game)
Bio: The house of Winchester is a new one, having their origin with the fall of Wessex roughly 40 years ago, whereupon Artair’s father, a commander of Æthelbald, who was rewarded for his valour and bravery with the rich and prosperous regions of Wessex capital, which has only grown richer since then by the wise rule of King Æthelbald.

Artair is the third son of the last earl, the man destined to be a priest who at an early age was pulled out of the comfort of the church at the deaths of his older brothers, now instead to become his father’s successor. He learned early on to read and write, having a fondness for books and due to his early years, a certain strong sense of faith, even if his views at times would be considered sinful.

After being pulled away from the church, Artair grew up in his father’s court, a court of peace and plenty as he watched his father grow fat, contend and happy with the life he had while Artair would keep his fondness for books, often time reading late into the night as he found his own happiness. Artair’s true skill and brilliance would however come in the form of battle, showing a keen sense of military mind during a minor uprising on the outskirts of his father’s earldoms as he defeated the peasants and dealt out bloody justice. With words just having reached Artair of his father’s death, just days after swearing fealty to the new king, he has now risen to his new position of earl with all that it entails, looking to make his own mark and if the message his father sent back was true, ensure that the weak king would break the realm.

(I have some other characters as well, a couple of brothers and sisters I plan to introduce through various ICs. Also I am not entirely sure how the stats with the ++/-- works, so could someone perhaps explain it to me?)
 
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Schlieffen

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Name: Artair
Age: late teens-early twenties
House: Winchester
Earldoms: Modern day Hampshire and Wiltshire (Would be cool to know if they have different names at this point in the game)
Bio: The house of Winchester is a new one, having their origin with the fall of Wessex roughly 40 years ago, whereupon Artair’s father, a commander of Æthelbald, who was rewarded for his valour and bravery with the rich and prosperous regions of Wessex capital, which has only grown richer since then by the wise rule of King Æthelbald.

Artair is the third son of the last earl, the man destined to be a priest who at an early age was pulled out of the comfort of the church at the deaths of his older brothers, now instead to become his father’s successor. He learned early on to read and write, having a fondness for books and due to his early years, a certain strong sense of faith, even if his views at times would be considered sinful.

After being pulled away from the church, Artair grew up in his father’s court, a court of peace and plenty as he watched his father grow fat, contend and happy with the life he had while Artair would keep his fondness for books, often time reading late into the night as he found his own happiness. Artair’s true skill and brilliance would however come in the form of battle, showing a keen sense of military mind during a minor uprising on the outskirts of his father’s earldoms as he defeated the peasants and dealt out bloody justice. With words just having reached Artair of his father’s death, just days after swearing fealty to the new king, he has now risen to his new position of earl with all that it entails, looking to make his own mark and if the message his father sent back was true, ensure that the weak king would break the realm.

(I have some other characters as well, a couple of brothers and sisters I plan to introduce through various ICs. Also I am not entirely sure how the stats with the ++/-- works, so could someone perhaps explain it to me?)
Approved story-wise: There's a link to a province map in the first part of the stats thread if you want to figure out the corresponding provinces to where you'd like to rule. Unlike what the rules currently state you can create as many characters as you want within reason, but I strongly encourage no more than 3 to start.

As for stats [+] basically means "competent", with more plusses meaning more skilled. One or more [-] symbols mean the character is particularly bad in a certain area.
 

Sneakyflaps

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Cool, will make a court. As for the provinces to rule, I meant the counties/earldoms of Hampshire and Berkshire, which I believe they are also called on the map you have used.

As for stats, [+/+++/+/+/+] would that be acceptable or would you prefer i rearranged 1+ as you mentioned something with a dump stat earlier?

Edit: Ignore me, I am an idiot, its Winchester and Berks on the province map you provided
 
Last edited:

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Ok everyone, I'm going to put the next turn on hold very briefly to discuss the following. I'm hoping everyone will give their feedback quickly so we can restart in just a few days, but I don't want the pressure of the turns still passing by while we discuss this. RP can and should continue though, especially in the king's court.

Based on our experience so far, I'd like to do the following:


1) Orders/Action Revamp
Your orders might be "The Earl tries to increase taxes in Middlesex". Instead of an immediate result, something like this will be added to your Current Actions:

Earl Wulf : Raise Taxes in Middlesex
Base [5-], No RP [-], Low Taxes[+]

This is an in-progress Action, with the current (public) modifiers. Until his orders change, Earl Wulf will make a roll every turn to change the Base modifier. In-character actions/storytelling can affect things as well.

When you're happy with the odds, actually performing the action is done as one final order. The actual modifiers used are kept secret to allow for intrigue. Also:
  • Turns take place at the end of every Saturday/Monday/Thursday.
  • There's no character or player limit for orders. Instead, every additional order by a player gives a [-] penalty to all others.
  • Characters can be assigned to the same action, or change the action they're working on at will. An action with no-one assigned will lose progress and/or cancel itself.
  • Movement is limited to 1 province per turn as a free order, 3 provinces as a full order. For reference, at the slower rate that's ~2 real-life weeks across S. England and ~4 real-life weeks from Scotland to Kent. At the fast rate that's just two turns to cross S. England and a little over a week to go from Scotland to Kent.


2) Events
I'd like to shift immediately to a little bit of action. Everyone who gathered for the coronation will start in Kent, and the following events will take place:
  • The three Scottish kingdoms will begin raising an army aiming to reclaim territory in Northern England and assert their independence.
  • The Welsh kingdoms (incl. Dumnonia) have failed to deliver their tribute, and someone will need to collect it.
Dealing with these (primarily the Scottish invasion) will be players' first challenge. Most notably, the Earls of Lothian and Berwick are both far away from their own realms, and will need to decide how best to deal with that: Rush back immediately to defend their lands, go more slowly but raise an army on their way north, gather forces and prepare a counter-invasion, etc.? There's also the matter of paying for the war, which will likely cost more than what one or two earls' realms can provide: Should the focus be on pressuring the Welsh into paying their tribute (and how will this be done?), collecting taxes within England, etc.?

I suspect that this will also be the kicking-off point for players gaining more influence: The king will likely give his blessing to characters acting in his name to deal with the Scottish threat, and afterwards those that did so will likely be rewarded for their efforts. (Those that took advantage of the opportunity to grab a little power themselves may also get away with it, given the circumstances...)


3) RP Improvements
I'd like to encourage players to do the following:
  • More minor characters for in-character diplomacy. Letters are nice, but travelling diplomats and family members often make for better interactions: As the earl's disperse to deal with this crisis, I'd like to see their representatives left in the king's court to argue about how to best handle things.
  • More major characters. The hard limit is off since the rules have been reworked, so feel free to promote a few brothers, uncles, or even notable advisers.
  • More ladytypes. Seriously, we're never going to get any dynastic politics with nothing but bachelors. :D


EDIT:
4) Dynastic Rules
This isn't a proposal but a question: What do players want in terms of dynastic rules — e.g., characters giving birth, dying of old age, etc.? The traditional route is to give players total control over that sort of thing, but with dynastic politics being an important part of the game it's been brought up that maybe we should have some rules/mechanics in place. I'm really torn on this issue myself, so if you have any opinions or suggestions, I'd love to hear them.



Ok, that's what I'd like to do moving forward. I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts/input. :)
 
Last edited:

Firehound15

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Name: Artair
Age: late teens-early twenties
House: Winchester
Earldoms: Winchester and Berks (Would be cool to know if they have different names at this point in the game)
Bio: The house of Winchester is a new one, having their origin with the fall of Wessex roughly 40 years ago, whereupon Artair’s father, a commander of Æthelbald, who was rewarded for his valour and bravery with the rich and prosperous regions of Wessex capital, which has only grown richer since then by the wise rule of King Æthelbald.

Artair is the third son of the last earl, the man destined to be a priest who at an early age was pulled out of the comfort of the church at the deaths of his older brothers, now instead to become his father’s successor. He learned early on to read and write, having a fondness for books and due to his early years, a certain strong sense of faith, even if his views at times would be considered sinful.

After being pulled away from the church, Artair grew up in his father’s court, a court of peace and plenty as he watched his father grow fat, contend and happy with the life he had while Artair would keep his fondness for books, often time reading late into the night as he found his own happiness. Artair’s true skill and brilliance would however come in the form of battle, showing a keen sense of military mind during a minor uprising on the outskirts of his father’s earldoms as he defeated the peasants and dealt out bloody justice. With words just having reached Artair of his father’s death, just days after swearing fealty to the new king, he has now risen to his new position of earl with all that it entails, looking to make his own mark and if the message his father sent back was true, ensure that the weak king would break the realm.

(I have some other characters as well, a couple of brothers and sisters I plan to introduce through various ICs. Also I am not entirely sure how the stats with the ++/-- works, so could someone perhaps explain it to me?)

 

BlackCrown

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Ok everyone, I'm going to put the next turn on hold very briefly to discuss the following. I'm hoping everyone will give their feedback quickly so we can restart in just a few days, but I don't want the pressure of the turns still passing by while we discuss this. RP can and should continue though, especially in the king's court.

Based on our experience so far, I'd like to do the following:


1) Orders/Action Revamp
Your orders might be "The Earl tries to increase taxes in Middlesex". Instead of an immediate result, something like this will be added to your Current Actions:

Earl Wulf : Raise Taxes in Middlesex
Base [5-], No RP [-], Low Taxes[+]

This is an in-progress Action, with the current (public) modifiers. Until his orders change, Earl Wulf will make a roll every turn to change the Base modifier. In-character actions/storytelling can affect things as well.

When you're happy with the odds, actually performing the action is done as one final order. The actual modifiers used are kept secret to allow for intrigue. Also:
  • Turns take place at the end of every Saturday/Monday/Thursday.
  • There's no character or player limit for orders. Instead, every additional order by a player gives a [-] penalty to all others.
  • Characters can be assigned to the same action, or change the action they're working on at will. An action with no-one assigned will lose progress and/or cancel itself.
  • Movement is limited to 1 province per turn as a free order, 3 provinces as a full order. For reference, at the slower rate that's ~2 real-life weeks across S. England and ~4 real-life weeks from Scotland to Kent. At the fast rate that's just two turns to cross S. England and a little over a week to go from Scotland to Kent.


2) Events
I'd like to shift immediately to a little bit of action. Everyone who gathered for the coronation will start in Kent, and the following events will take place:
  • The three Scottish kingdoms will begin raising an army aiming to reclaim territory in Northern England and assert their independence.
  • The Welsh kingdoms (incl. Dumnonia) have failed to deliver their tribute, and someone will need to collect it.
Dealing with these (primarily the Scottish invasion) will be players' first challenge. Most notably, the Earls of Lothian and Berwick are both far away from their own realms, and will need to decide how best to deal with that: Rush back immediately to defend their lands, go more slowly but raise an army on their way north, gather forces and prepare a counter-invasion, etc.? There's also the matter of paying for the war, which will likely cost more than what one or two earls' realms can provide: Should the focus be on pressuring the Welsh into paying their tribute (and how will this be done?), collecting taxes within England, etc.?

I suspect that this will also be the kicking-off point for players gaining more influence: The king will likely give his blessing to characters acting in his name to deal with the Scottish threat, and afterwards those that did so will likely be rewarded for their efforts. (Those that took advantage of the opportunity to grab a little power themselves may also get away with it, given the circumstances...)


3) RP Improvements
I'd like to encourage players to do the following:
  • More minor characters for in-character diplomacy. Letters are nice, but travelling diplomats and family members often make for better interactions: As the earl's disperse to deal with this crisis, I'd like to see their representatives left in the king's court to argue about how to best handle things.
  • More major characters. The hard limit is off since the rules have been reworked, so feel free to promote a few brothers, uncles, or even notable advisers.
  • More ladytypes. Seriously, we're never going to get any dynastic politics with nothing but bachelors. :D



Ok, that's what I'd like to do moving forward. I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts/input. :)
All of those changes sound great, and I think the challenge of dealing with the new wars will certainly be interesting. I already have a few ideas for some characters, both minor and major, and will work on getting some of them in functioning shape - And some will even be poorly written females.
 

Schlieffen

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Can we get clarification on how pregnancies are going to work? Seems like an important thing to know, given the whole dynastic emphasis.
At least for now, all in-character stuff is left up to players. It might seem like nothing will ever happen that way — and if that's the case, maybe some things will become mechanical instead — but, based on what I've seen so far, I suspect many players are willing to sabotage their own dynasty a little bit to keep things interesting. ;)
 

Firehound15

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At least for now, all in-character stuff is left up to players. It might seem like nothing will ever happen that way — and if that's the case, maybe some things will become mechanical instead — but, based on what I've seen so far, I suspect many players are willing to sabotage their own dynasty a little bit to keep things interesting. ;)
I agree. Maybe only start to handle it mechanically when it deals with interdynastic issues?