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    Paradox Development Studio brings you the sequel to one of the most popular strategy games ever made! Crusader Kings III is soon upon us and you can pre order it today!


    Releasing September 1st 2020

TacticalRetreat

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I think it's a bad choice to add so many regions from outside of the Crusader / Jihad area. Like Central Africa and yes, even India. It's just going to slow down the game and if Paradox would release the stats, I'm pretty sure Mongolia and India are among the least played areas.

What's the point anyway? Yes, Islam reached that far in those days, but the lands were never really contested. Just make separate games: ''Asian Dynasties'' and ''Jewels of Africa''.
 

Verter

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May 18, 2020
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Adding China would be a completely new game... It would be like a 50€ DLC or such in 2025 and I truly hope that base CK is fully fleshed out when they even think about focusing on China.
Well, in some ways I agree with you. But you're so thoroughgoing in conclusion.
We've Byzantium. It works really bad in CK2. I don't have high hopes either for CK3, but let's see.
You think China system (in-game) will supreme different from Byzantium, right ?

We're not devs, so we should not know all pitfalls, but I believe reason why China is not in release - map and CPU issues, geometry, a hell work with characters and dynasties for China and surrounding countries.

I don't see as ppl said problem with political system (after we've Byzantine). But I may be wrong ofc.
 

Atimo3

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It's not just a matter of slapping on a bureaucratic government. It's also simulating the rest of the nuances of that bureaucratic government, society, and culture that Crusader Kings is not really designed around, because it is a map painter at the end of the day, and bureaucratic China gameplay would simply conflict with that in so many ways from a design standpoint.
Agreed. At this point, adding China would probably just devolve into a lot of weird hacks and rickety work-arounds. Something this complex would probably need its own separate game.
Adding China would be a completely new game...
I am not saying Paradox should go ahead and make Sengoku 2 with all of East Asia and North Oceania and with a vision centered around bureaucratic governments... But yeah, I am literally saying that.
 

Verter

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May 18, 2020
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I think it's a bad choice to add so many regions from outside of the Crusader / Jihad area. Like Central Africa and yes, even India. It's just going to slow down the game and if Paradox would release the stats, I'm pretty sure Mongolia and India are among the least played areas.

What's the point anyway? Yes, Islam reached that far in those days, but the lands were never really contested. Just make separate games: ''Asian Dynasties'' and ''Jewels of Africa''.
Historically, CK covers days of Mongolian invasions. Mongolian China fought versus Ikhanate, and Mongolians reached Hungary and Germany.
So, historically, to add China is right option.

If judge by your way - Nigerian coastline is outside of topic. But we got it.
 

Varus90

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I kind of hope that when Paradox inevitably adds supernatural/absurd events back we can get an invasion by the Christian army of Prester John either from Southeast Africa or east of Mongolia...
 

Samitte

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@Servancour

There is another modern dam lake present in the Caucasus (it is a bit harder to see due to the map colours) but the Mingechevir dam lake is visible in the screenshot you posted of the Seljuk polity. Its the large on on the Kura in Caucasian Albania. And just to be sure since its hard to make out: If there is a dam lake at Nakhchevan that is also a modern construction.

Sorry to ping you again, but I figured best to get them removed before release.
 
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cybrxkhan

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I am not saying Paradox should go ahead and make Sengoku 2 with all of East Asia and North Oceania and with a vision centered around bureaucratic governments... But yeah, I am literally saying that.
In terms of representing Asia's history better, I'd be all for it, but sadly I don't know if it would make much business sense. I suppose those of us who want Asia represented with a foundation that really brings out its history, rather than having a vague pastiche of 12th century French feudalism used as the basis for political systems stretching across the entirely of Eurasia and Africa across eight centuries including but especially China's bureaucracy, are in the minority. A game similar to Crusader Kings, but takes as its basis bureaucratic administration rather than blobbing territory and map painting, would be amazing if not more revolutionary than Crusader Kings in terms of divorcing strategy gaming from its min-maxy conquest-focused roots, but I guess both of us are just dremaing at this point.

The strong stance I've taken on this issue aside, I'll be neutral if China is added from the gameplay perspective - it is what it is - but I don't expect anything revolutionary to make up for the issues I mentioned earlier that stem from the game's core design coming into conflict with the generalities of East Asian administration, culture, and history. people are going to be very disappointed if the devs do for China what Rajas of India was for India (i.e. criticized for being a "bland" copypasta of Western European feudalism in-game with minor and inconsequential differences). Of course, if you just want a kind of copypasta, then that's definitely fair, but if you're anyone is expecting anything deeper than RoI, I think disappointment is very likely.
 
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On the topic of China, despite being a Chinese history nerd who would kill for a fully-fleshed out depiction of Song in the immediate aftermath of Five Dynasties-Ten Kingdoms, trying to reconquer everything that was lost while operating by a completely distinct set of rules and a different (and rapid) tech progression within the same map as Feudal Europe, I honestly wouldn't be upset if we even got a poor man's version of it that doesn't truly do it justice early on, just so that future updates and expansions could iterate on it and eventually reach perfection over time. I feel even having a rudimentary imitation with potential to be fleshed out, guided by ongoing trial and error, would be better than having it not exist at all, or be relegated to an NPC-only off-screen entity again.

Although if I were to pick a Paradox game that feels the omission of China the most right now, I would choose Imperator over CK. Imperator's period encompasses much of the formative process that shaped the iconic "China Formula" that would persist through countless eras, invasions, dynasties and civil wars to come, while still possibly fitting within the Imperial mechanics of IR. But on the other hand... the impossible struggle of keeping together and trying to stabilise a region that everyone and their cow wants a piece of... Aaaaaaaaaaaah! I really hope one of the two eventually bites the bullet >.<
 

Nviard55

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Looking forward to playing it. BUT, as other said, i regret that once again India and China show up in a game called "Crusader Kings". We got Europa universalis for it. Wished for a more detailed Europe/Mid Est/Iran with lots more provinces there. Hope it will be possible for modders to remove those parts such as the far east and mid Africa.
 

Rubidium

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Well, in some ways I agree with you. But you're so thoroughgoing in conclusion.
We've Byzantium. It works really bad in CK2. I don't have high hopes either for CK3, but let's see.
You think China system (in-game) will supreme different from Byzantium, right ?

We're not devs, so we should not know all pitfalls, but I believe reason why China is not in release - map and CPU issues, geometry, a hell work with characters and dynasties for China and surrounding countries.

I don't see as ppl said problem with political system (after we've Byzantine). But I may be wrong ofc.
I'll bite: China would be extremely different from Byzantium. Just because both were centralized empires (to varying degrees, and changing over time) doesn't mean they were particularly similar politically. To take one minor example, Byzantium never had anything like the Imperial exam system, for instance, and yet that would be both expected for China in CK, and really hard to model in the current system.

And that's not even getting into the issue of representing China in such a way that it doesn't turn into a ginormous, unstoppable blob conquering its way to Europe. At least the Byzantines, even if they tend to blob, have the Seljuks/Abbasids to keep them somewhat honest.
 
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Fulgrim

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Paradox, please fix the spelling of Ukraine/Ruthenia/Kyivan Rus capital. It is Kyiv, not Kiev.
Please refer to the video recorded by Professor of Slavic languages below:
This option is appropriate only for modern city. In all other issues the only possible name is Kiev - it is just tradition to use historical name in historical context.

Using for Kiev in CK3 period name "Kyiv" would be the same as name Constantinople "Istambul", Reval - "Tallinn", Konigsberg - "Kaliningrad" etc.

This also true for Chernigov - NOT Chernigiv, Lvov - not Lviv. Even wiki use historical names of these cities in historical context:
 
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Lord Hoosier

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So, the map looks torn on its eastern edge in the bathroom clips floating around, does that mean we might see East Asia as a Rajas style expansion down the line?
 

Hospodar

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Feb 7, 2016
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This option is appropriate only for modern city. In all other issues the only possible name is Kiev - it is just tradition to use historical name in historical context.

Using for Kiev in CK3 period name "Kyiv" would be the same as name Constantinople "Istambul", Reval - "Tallinn", Konigsberg - "Kaliningrad" etc.
Those that advocate for 'Kyiv' are probably mistaking the traditional English usage of 'Kiev' for a (contemporary) transliteration of the Russian 'Киев'. Overall, besides the historical argument, 'Kiev' is the more neutral term while 'Kyiv' has a clear Ukrainian bias.

So yeah, Paradox should stick to 'Kiev'.
 

Fulgrim

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Those that advocate for 'Kyiv' are probably mistaking the traditional English usage of 'Kiev' for a (contemporary) transliteration of the Russian 'Киев'. Overall, besides the historical argument, 'Kiev' is the more neutral term while 'Kyiv' has a clear Ukrainian bias.

So yeah, Paradox should stick to 'Kiev'.
Actually, it is correct not only from Russian point of view, but also from Polish.
After all, for some time Kiev was part of the Commonwealth.

The next step after "Kyiv" - lets call Kingdom of Germany "Kingdom of Nemetchina" and Kingdom of Hundary "Kingdom of Ugorschina" XDD
By the way, why Hebrew speakers dont ask to rename Jaffa to Tel Aviv and Acre to Akko?))