• Pre order now!

    Paradox Development Studio brings you the sequel to one of the most popular strategy games ever made! Crusader Kings III is soon upon us and you can pre order it today!


    Releasing September 1st 2020

Slime99

Major
May 3, 2017
511
228
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
By the end of the 7th century, clearly defined tribal dialectical areas—Finns, Tavastians, Karelians(Korela), Northern Estonians, Southern Estonians, and Western Estonians including the islanders—had emerged, the population of each having formed its own understanding of identity.
You could extend this reasoning to the Swedish (geatish, gutnish, swedish), Latgalian (latgalian, selonian, samogitian, curonian) and Lithuanian (auksatian, samogitian). The Finns and Tavastians would be split up as well, and perhaps Udmurt, Zyriane and Permian, and Moksha and Erzya. I believe those decisions shouldn't be made, since those groups were more so tribes, already represented by the abstracted polities.
If it were my will, I would add Kvens. Once biarmians(Bjarmians) added, what are they worse?
Kvens were not homogeneous, they were Karelians, Tavastians, Satakuntans and other groups. It's not even certain there was such thing as a Kven at the time, it was tied to geography and lifestyle. This also begs the question, which culture would Kvens be, if Karelian was it's own culture from Vyborg to Aunus? Or the people in Savo, which saw settlement from Tavastia and Karelia.
Another thing I would add is that the modern Karelian culture and language has had more time to drift away from Finnish and western Karelian culture. They started settling the coast of Viena during the 14th century, at which point the Karelians got split between Novgorod and Sweden in 1323. Admittedly the western Karelians did get further "westernization" from Sweden and Savonian settlers, but the eastern Karelians absorbed many Saami and Veps people as well. It is not entirely truthful to say that the divergence between modern eastern Karelians and Finns is as big as between ancient Tavastians and ancient Karelians. During the middle ages they were a different group from the Tavastians though, and fought many times according to Russian records, but also were in close contact and shared cultural proximity and heritage.

edit:
In conclusion, the Karelian ethnogenesis hadn't fully taken place before late game, nor have the reasons of it occurred yet. It's reasonable to have them as a separate culture from the Finns in EU4. The Karelian culture could perhaps be a late game melting pot, as long as they are under the influence of an Orthodox realm, or otherwise are separated from the Finns.
 
Last edited:

Mrtwos

Private
Oct 27, 2019
14
13
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
You could extend this reasoning to the Swedish (geatish, gutnish, swedish), Latgalian (latgalian, selonian, samogitian, curonian) and Lithuanian (auksatian, samogitian). The Finns and Tavastians would be split up as well, and perhaps Udmurt, Zyriane and Permian, and Moksha and Erzya. I believe those decisions shouldn't be made, since those groups were more so tribes, already represented by the abstracted polities.

Kvens were not homogeneous, they were Karelians, Tavastians, Satakuntans and other groups. It's not even certain there was such thing as a Kven at the time, it was tied to geography and lifestyle. This also begs the question, which culture would Kvens be, if Karelian was it's own culture from Vyborg to Aunus? Or the people in Savo, which saw settlement from Tavastia and Karelia.
Another thing I would add is that the modern Karelian culture and language has had more time to drift away from Finnish and western Karelian culture. They started settling the coast of Viena during the 14th century, at which point the Karelians got split between Novgorod and Sweden in 1323. Admittedly the western Karelians did get further "westernization" from Sweden and Savonian settlers, but the eastern Karelians absorbed many Saami and Veps people as well. It is not entirely truthful to say that the divergence between modern eastern Karelians and Finns is as big as between ancient Tavastians and ancient Karelians. During the middle ages they were a different group from the Tavastians though, and fought many times according to Russian records, but also were in close contact and shared cultural proximity and heritage.

edit:
In conclusion, the Karelian ethnogenesis hadn't fully taken place before late game, nor have the reasons of it occurred yet. It's reasonable to have them as a separate culture from the Finns in EU4. The Karelian culture could perhaps be a late game melting pot, as long as they are under the influence of an Orthodox realm, or otherwise are separated from the Finns.
You could extend this reasoning to the Swedish (geatish, gutnish, swedish), Latgalian (latgalian, selonian, samogitian, curonian) and Lithuanian (auksatian, samogitian). The Finns and Tavastians would be split up as well, and perhaps Udmurt, Zyriane and Permian, and Moksha and Erzya. I
Exactly. Otherwise, this is an extremely political, cultural and abstract unity of the tribes, based on the current borders. Now we have immediately in the 10th century and Latvians, Estonians, until recently, pomeranians and polabians are united.

The Karelian culture could perhaps be a late game melting pot, as long as they are under the influence of an Orthodox realm, or otherwise are separated from the Finns.
So you think that the formation of Karelian ethnogenesis depends on religion?
Karelians have an ancient isolation from the Finns, including due to geographical location.
During the middle ages they were a different group from the Tavastians though, and fought many times according to Russian records, but also were in close contact and shared cultural proximity and heritage.
So it can be said about many cultures represented in CK2.

Then why divide Russian culture, if it was one single alloy, which shared closeness and kinship to each other, if they were only tribal, dialectical groups. According to your logic. Although other peoples participated in the ethnogenesis of Russians (different tribes). The same happened with the Karelians.
Or a question. Why was Polish culture unified in such cases by the 8th century, before the formation of Poland itself and the formation of a single culture? The same can be said about the Curonian, Latgale and Estonians. They are united solely for gameplay reasons (Few Provinces). But they did not constitute a single alloy, they were close, but independent at that time.
The Karelians, in turn, were isolated from the Finns, like the Finns from the Veps. Yes, they were culturally close, but the Vepsians and all the Baltic-Finnish peoples are to some extent related to the Finns. We are not talking about the current situation, but the ancient cultural isolation of some peoples from others.
Otherwise, you can unite all the Baltic-Finnish peoples with the Finns. After all, Estonians interacted through the Gulf of Finland with the Finns. And in ck2, the Vepsians were also part of the Finns and it didn't bother anyone. Did you see the geographical location of the Vepsians and Finns? Given that between them were desert lands inhabited by nomadic Sami. Yes, obviously it was a cultural affinity with the Finns justifies a single culture.
That was sarcasm.


It is one thing when small cultures unite (One province), another thing when creating a kind of political unity, which did not exist. Not taking into account the different history, influence, ethnogenesis and geographical location.

The basis of Karelian ethnogenesis and isolation began in the Iron Age, continued in the 7-8 centuries and ended in the Middle Ages with the advent of the Veps, just at the beginning and the subsequent time, ck.
Russian influence was exclusively political and religious, the main culture was laid before this period. The Western Karelians were subsequently assimilated by the Tavastians, migrating from the Swedish expansion, laying the foundation for the ethnic group of the Savonians.
 
Last edited:

Slime99

Major
May 3, 2017
511
228
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
So you think that the formation of Karelian ethnogenesis depends on religion?
Karelians have an ancient isolation from the Finns, including due to geographical location.
Well sort of, not entirely. The "modern" east Karelians are not the same and only descendants of ancient Karelians. The ancient Karelians formed when western Finnic dialect speakers migrated and merged with eastern Finnic dialect speakers of the area. They started pushing further away from ancient Karelia later on since the 13th century, absorbing Veps in Aunus and Saami in Viena. The Livvi dialect, the most numerously spoken dialect of Karelian, is a Karelianized Vepsian substrate. Christianization does also influence the culture of the people.
Or a question. Why was Polish culture unified in such cases by the 8th century, before the formation of Poland itself and the formation of a single culture? The same can be said about the Curonian, Latgale and Estonians. They are united solely for gameplay reasons (Few Provinces). But they did not constitute a single alloy, they were close, but independent at that time.
I've seen a suggestion to unite Polabian, Polish and Pomeranian or even all of the West Slavs at the earlier startdate so that those cultures would not be predetermined. Lithuanian and Latgalian could be united in a similar manner to "East Baltic" (as opposed to the West Baltic speaking Prussians) later splitting on through meltingpots. Latgale I believe is split in half? Estonia is kind of squished, the tribes could show Livonia, Saaremaa, North Estonia and South Estonia.
The Karelians, in turn, were isolated from the Finns, like the Finns from the Veps. Yes, they are close, but the Vepsians and all the Baltic-Finnish peoples are to some extent related to the Finns. We are not talking about the current situation, but the ancient cultural isolation of some peoples from others.
Otherwise, you can unite all the Baltic-Finnish peoples with the Finns. After all, Estonians interacted through the Gulf of Finland with the Finns. And in ck2, the Vepsians were also part of the Finns and it didn't bother anyone. Did you see the geographical location of the Vepsians and Finns? Given that between them were desert lands inhabited by nomadic Sami. Yes, obviously it was a cultural affinity with the Finns justifies a single culture.
The deal with the Veps is that they got heavy Slavic and Varangian influence, and acted differently politically. For example they adopted the slash and burn method from the Slavs, and became more agrarian and reducing their hunting lifestyle. The Veps would mostly just mind their business under the Rus, unlike the Karelians, who saw the Rus as trade partners and from time to time allies, and tried to retain independence from Novgorod. Veps were also quick to Christianize.

Savo also wasn't uninhabitated, it was getting densely populated by the Tavastians and Karelians during the Viking age, so that removes the physical gap between Karelians and "Finns". Ancient Finns, Tavastians and Karelians also shared a form of burning burial.

I still believe that tribes represent differently oriented areas of a larger culture good enough, it's not like tribes in CK3 are supposed to represent the smallest family polities. Maybe it would be better for the Finnish culture to be called Finnic, be my guest.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions: Wenla and Alpharius001

诸葛孔博

Sergeant
Feb 22, 2017
69
19
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
Some place names in the Far East have errors in 867, here are my suggestions for changes
1.Zhenfan
Zhenfan may from a Ming dynasty(1368) name 镇番, in 867 it is called as Baiting/白亭 or Mingwei/明威(The former is the name of the military zone, the latter is the name of the administrative zone).After being controlled by Tangut/Xi Xia, it was renamed Xiliang/西凉
2.Ijinai
Ijinai/亦集乃 is a Tangut word meaning black water,but in 867, it seems to still be Tuyuhun culture, and it should be more appropriate to call Ningkou/宁寇 according to the Han
3.Wuluhai
Wuluhai may from 兀剌海 ,it also as a Tangut word meaning black moutain,but in 867, it seems to still be Shatuo culture,therefore, as with Ijinai, it is recommended to change the name of the Han to Fengzhou/丰州
4.Xining
The Song Dynasty changed its name to Xining/西宁 after acquiring the area in 1103, in 867 it may called as Kuozhou/廓州,after being controlled by the Tibetan, it was called Gyithang/青唐.
5.Xingqing
Xingqing/兴庆 is first appeared in 1020,also named by Tangut,in 867 it was called Huaiyuan/怀远 or Lingzhou/灵州(The difference between them is like Baiting and Mingwei)
 

Ain-Soph Aur

Sergeant
Feb 1, 2018
80
6
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
I think I should point out that in 867 and 1066, the concept of Mongolia did not exist. Therefore, the appearance of Mongolian culture and Buryatia culture (a subculture of Mongolia) in the game is very strange. Correspondingly, using the Mongolian "Soyombo" symbol as the banner of the Liao Empire is even more incredible: the culture of the Liao Empire is the Khitay culture, the ethnic group is the Khitay ethnic group, and the totem is the "green cow and white horse", which has nothing to do with Mongolia and Mongolian culture. Using "Soyombo" as the flag of the Liao Empire is as strange as using "Plantagenet" as the flag of Spain ...





The nomadic peoples north of the Great Wall have had many glory. Nationalities of different cultures have risen on this land, and they are declining because of their stronger southern neighbors. The evolution that is eligible to be called an empire is probably: Xiongnu(匈奴)➡Xianbei(鲜卑)➡ gokturks(突厥)➡Khitay(契丹)➡Jurchen(女真)➡molgol(蒙古),Some of them were expelled to the west by the Chinese (such as the Huns and Turks), some were turned into Chinese by the Chinese (such as Xianbei), and finally Mongolia finally conquered China and became a representative of the nomadic people. In any case, Mongolia did not exist in 867 and 1066. In the imperial jurisprudence of 867, it is more appropriate to use Turkic or Uyghurs(回纥)instead of Mongolia. The name that should be used in 1066 is Khitay.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions: Alpharius001

BrokenSky

Field Marshal
May 1, 2015
3.571
3.248
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
Regarding Special buidlings: will these be the Realm level buildings they were in CK2 or will it be possible for vassals to hold them? (Possibly dependent on vassal contract rulings?) In CK2 it often felt kinda bad that a strong HRE vassal couldn't have their own great palace or cathedrals unless they were the emperor, for example, even if they had the money to do it.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions: WhoStoleMyID and pengoyo

fr-rein

Bearded
Dec 29, 2014
1.407
243
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome Gold
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
Can we get a better Kiev screenshot please? :D
Also, is Lavra going to be in game?
 

pengoyo

First Lieutenant
Dec 9, 2015
254
282
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
Regarding Special buidlings: will these be the Realm level buildings they were in CK2 or will it be possible for vassals to hold them? (Possibly dependent on vassal contract rulings?) In CK2 it often felt kinda bad that a strong HRE vassal couldn't have their own great palace or cathedrals unless they were the emperor, for example, even if they had the money to do it.
Given that most (maybe all) have a holding or county benift in addition to a realm benefit, it looks like they want both the vassal and top liege to both benefit from special buildings in the realm
 
  • 1
Reactions: BrokenSky

Undead Martyr

Colonel
Sep 8, 2013
987
248
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I'm a little disappointed at the culture setup and the culture leader mechanic seems like just another way to reward blobbing. Maybe have it be a capstone for a learning lifestyle, and go by culture group instead of culture. Hopefully Carinthian culture gets added, in 867 espeically it should stretch much farther north into Austria.
Venetian/Dalmatian/Adriatic too, since they were very clearly distinct from the mainlanders (being much more "Roman"/Byzantine due to escaping lombard dominion and being a de facto Byzantine colony/protectorate).
 

zz77

Second Lieutenant
Oct 3, 2013
102
82
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
I noticed that one of the regions in Siberia is named "Kuzbas". But it's modern abbreviation of Kuznetsk [coal] Basin. Please, change it to something else.

And other Russian names of modern cities in Siberia and Volga-Ural looks strange too - such as Tomsk, Omsk, Pavlodar, Kainsk, Shchuchinks, Palniki, Glazov, Votkinsk, Orenburg, Durovka, Petrovsk, Atkarsk, Kazanskaya. Same for modern names in Ukraine and Crimea - Odessa, Kherson, Dnipro, Perekop.
 

LordofLight

Captain
Sep 6, 2015
439
740
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
It is also extremely odd
I don't. Don't take this as an excuse but just my thoughts on why.

The area they have to cover on the map is insanely huge. And having to get fitting names for everything will mean that a lot of things will fall through the cracks. Most documentation of areas, maps, city names etc being in wildly different languages on top of that.

One can hope that people pointing things out is something they expect and want as it helps outsource area name research. Though I'd imagine they still have to confirm it.
 

Zhetone

New and Improved
Mar 18, 2010
3.159
2.523
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
yes it's expected there will be errors, you have a team of limited size trying to find names for thousands of places on a map and they can't be experts on every region - for a lot of them the research probably amounts to looking at a map and a cursory look at the geography. they can't know every name that is or isn't anachronistic, which is where we come in since we can crowdsource this research; on these forums alone you have people from all over the world who will know more specific details. hopefully they read threads like this and change stuff when they can
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions: IntoTheStars and pengoyo

LordofLight

Captain
Sep 6, 2015
439
740
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Taking a look at the map, the team responsible for this has a lot on their hands. It wouldn't surprise me if it would take longer to properly research everything on an equal level than to actually make the game.

Lots easier and faster to change/update it later.

This is one reason I'm not a big fan of including China. Imagine how much more stuff they'd have on their hands. Ouch.
 

cybrxkhan

Going to Scarborough Fair
Jul 14, 2012
7.534
1.140
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Taking a look at the map, the team responsible for this has a lot on their hands. It wouldn't surprise me if it would take longer to properly research everything on an equal level than to actually make the game.

Lots easier and faster to change/update it later.

This is one reason I'm not a big fan of including China. Imagine how much more stuff they'd have on their hands. Ouch.
It won't be just China, which itself is already a huge issue to tackle in portrayal - it will also be Korea, Manchuria, Vietnam, much of Southeast Asia including all of the various Indonesian islands, and depending on if the map extends eastward enough, Japan and the Philippines as well. I think this is a big point people miss when they want China in - there's no way in hell the devs are just gonna plop China in and then leave all the other places empty or filled with silly one count placeholders as they did for places like bumfuck nowhere Siberia, as many of these places were developed societies with varying degrees of advanced administration and politics.

There's gonna be a shitload of research the devs would need to do for all these regions on the province, culture, religion, and historical titles/characters setup alone, even if they want to do the barebones, and that's on top of the other research needed to give justice to these regions' cultures, religions, and politics (even China alone, again, is a huge, huge, huge challenge as the really great discussion on the other thread about China implies).
 
  • 2
Reactions: Daniemperor and Newb1

LordofLight

Captain
Sep 6, 2015
439
740
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Lets not forget how different their language is thus source material is going to be... quite difficult to get your hands on and translate. This is why I advocate for a Asia focused game so that they can actually give the region the time and love it not only deserves but requires.
 
  • 1
Reactions: Daniemperor

pengoyo

First Lieutenant
Dec 9, 2015
254
282
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
It won't be just China, which itself is already a huge issue to tackle in portrayal - it will also be Korea, Manchuria, Vietnam, much of Southeast Asia including all of the various Indonesian islands, and depending on if the map extends eastward enough, Japan and the Philippines as well. I think this is a big point people miss when they want China in - there's no way in hell the devs are just gonna plop China in and then leave all the other places empty or filled with silly one count placeholders as they did for places like bumfuck nowhere Siberia, as many of these places were developed societies with varying degrees of advanced administration and politics.

There's gonna be a shitload of research the devs would need to do for all these regions on the province, culture, religion, and historical titles/characters setup alone, even if they want to do the barebones, and that's on top of the other research needed to give justice to these regions' cultures, religions, and politics (even China alone, again, is a huge, huge, huge challenge as the really great discussion on the other thread about China implies).
To be fair, the main reason I hope the map gets extend to include China is because I really want to play in Southeast Asia, especially Indonesia. It just has such a rich history that lends itself well to CK.

That said, I could see them doing something similar to how they expanded east in CK2. The map being extended, but the wasteland is filled in over multiple expansions rather than all in one go.
 
  • 1
Reactions: Daniemperor

cybrxkhan

Going to Scarborough Fair
Jul 14, 2012
7.534
1.140
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
To be fair, the main reason I hope the map gets extend to include China is because I really want to play in Southeast Asia, especially Indonesia. It just has such a rich history that lends itself well to CK.

That said, I could see them doing something similar to how they expanded east in CK2. The map being extended, but the wasteland is filled in over multiple expansions rather than all in one go.
I'm Vietnamese (with some distant Chinese ancestry) and I would love to be able to play my ancestors, but I guess I personally don't feel like PI would do it justice (not because they don't want to, but because of the limitations of the game's design). Having wasteland would be a theoretically workable solution, but it would just be bizarre having, say, China all filled in but literally the rest of Asia as giant black voids of nothingness, due to the heavy interactions with these regions - Tibet as a wasteland in CK2 worked because other than the early medieval period, it sort of kept to itself, and it was less populated, whereas with much of Asia we're talking about developed, large-scale civilizations and societies that frequently interacted with China, whether through direct conflict, trade, or the tribute system and influence. I do think Southeast Asia and Japan would fit okay in Crusader Kings' framework though (not that great, if at all, but workable), but China and to a lesser extent Korea and Vietnam I think would be a real big problem, especially given China would be the focus of any potential expansion in East Asia.

I could see maybe filling in Southeast Asia and leaving the entirety of China blank at first, but again that's a little odd to me given China's commercial and political involvement in the region.

I digress.