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CK3: The Royal Court - The Vision

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Karlington said:
We have the trait Zealous, which is not that different in concept.
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That's true, *but*.

Zealousness towards different religions will mean very different things. You couldn't simply hang a health bonus on Zealous and have it make sense across the board.

If your zeal causes you to moderate everything you do (Temperate is a virtue), so that you're neither continually feasting nor continually fasting, you'll probably come off better than someone whose zeal for their religion causes them to continually feast (Ritual Celebration taken to its logical conclusion - especially if combined with Hedonism). Likewise a faith where you're encouraged to have sex with as many different people as possible (Polyamory, Carnal Exaltation) might be more dangerous because of the possibilities of sexual diseases being passed around than one that is more monogamous (and where people behave themselves).
 
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DreadLindwyrm said:
That's true, *but*.

Zealousness towards different religions will mean very different things. You couldn't simply hang a health bonus on Zealous and have it make sense across the board.

If your zeal causes you to moderate everything you do (Temperate is a virtue), so that you're neither continually feasting nor continually fasting, you'll probably come off better than someone whose zeal for their religion causes them to continually feast (Ritual Celebration taken to its logical conclusion - especially if combined with Hedonism). Likewise a faith where you're encouraged to have sex with as many different people as possible (Polyamory, Carnal Exaltation) might be more dangerous because of the possibilities of sexual diseases being passed around than one that is more monogamous (and where people behave themselves).
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I agree with you, but right now they do use Zealous the same way across the board. For example, take a Zealous adherent of a pacifist faith. He gets +2 Martial and a stress loss for executing people of other faiths. Doesn't make much sense to me. :)
 
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Karlington said:
I agree with you, but right now they do use Zealous the same way across the board. For example, take a Zealous adherent of a pacifist faith. He gets +2 Martial and a stress loss for executing people of other faiths. Doesn't make much sense to me. :)
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While I agree, I think part of the idea of Zealous is that they are on the side of religious extremism for their faith. And as such they will act against other faiths even if doing so goes against some of the tenets of their faith (i.e. a Zealous character is not supposed to represent the ideals of that faith).
 
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pengoyo said:
While I agree, I think part of the idea of Zealous is that they are on the side of religious extremism for their faith. And as such they will act against other faiths even if doing so goes against some of the tenets of their faith (i.e. a Zealous character is not supposed to represent the ideals of that faith).
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Hmm. I can buy that to a certain extent, but not when it goes against core tenets of the faith - like a pacifist devoted to military conflict and executions! :D
 
Karlington said:
I agree with you, but right now they do use Zealous the same way across the board. For example, take a Zealous adherent of a pacifist faith. He gets +2 Martial and a stress loss for executing people of other faiths. Doesn't make much sense to me. :)
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So that's something else that could/should be looked at when a religions expansion/DLC/flavour thing comes around.

What *would* make general sense for zealous across the board in that case?
 
Karlington said:
Hmm. I can buy that to a certain extent, but not when it goes against core tenets of the faith - like a pacifist devoted to military conflict and executions! :D
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While I agree pacifist religions are the ones that Zealous doesn't fit as naturally. I could see a Zealous pacifist that prepares for war and kills non-believers, not because they want to, but because they must protect their faith from infidels who would attack them, could even go so far as to preempt the attack the infidels would do, and by killing the violent non-pacifists they have made the world a more peaceful place (that's kind of the twisted logic I see a Zealous pacifist character using).

Also there are cases, albeit very rare, of extremist Jains starving children to death. In their mind they were just having the kids do ritual fasting and thus keeping the kids from harming other living things. So even a strict pacifist can hurt others in a round about way. So Paradox could just change the execution method for pacifist to starvation to give them a non-violent execution method.
 
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Viridianus said:
You meant a "non-violent" execution method, right? Death by starvation is quite extreme, many would argue a sword is less violent.
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While I agree starvation is a cruel way to die and probably worse than by a sword. It requires less violence on the part of the person doing it, and thus would be more fitting for characters that don't want to commit acts of violence themselves. People can do rather cruel things through inaction, as they often will justify it by convincing themselves it's not their fault.
 
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pengoyo said:
While I agree pacifist religions are the ones that Zealous doesn't fit as naturally. I could see a Zealous pacifist that prepares for war and kills non-believers, not because they want to, but because they must protect their faith from infidels who would attack them, could even go so far as to preempt the attack the infidels would do, and by killing the violent non-pacifists they have made the world a more peaceful place (that's kind of the twisted logic I see a Zealous pacifist character using).

Also there are cases, albeit very rare, of extremist Jains starving children to death. In their mind they were just having the kids do ritual fasting and thus keeping the kids from harming other living things. So even a strict pacifist can hurt others in a round about way. So Paradox could just change the execution method for pacifist to starvation to give them a non-violent execution method.
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The problem is that Zealous is a level of devotion that applies at all times, even when there are no infidel threats. And same for executions - execute a random peasant just for laughs, and if he's in the wrong faith it's a stress reduction.

Sorry, don't buy it. Zealous just doesn't fit with pacifist faiths and cannot be saved. :D Well, without changing how it works, at least. :)
 
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Karlington said:
The problem is that Zealous is a level of devotion that applies at all times, even when there are no infidel threats. And same for executions - execute a random peasant just for laughs, and if he's in the wrong faith it's a stress reduction.

Sorry, don't buy it. Zealous just doesn't fit with pacifist faiths and cannot be saved. :D Well, without changing how it works, at least. :)
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While I don't find it too far of a stretch. I also would be fine if they made zealousness slightly different depending on tenets. It would be pretty easy to add to the execute interaction a check to make zealous pacifists not get the stress reduction for executing prisoners of other faiths.
 
Barda498 said:
Could you guys perhaps add a lesser version or something a bit different for counts and dukes to flesh them out more. I have no problem being king or emperor but other people may prefer to play those lower levels even if just sometimes. Not complaining just suggesting. As you say Player Freedom. Also I assume the azure patch is safe for a current save but this is not?
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Yeah, now that I think about it, I dont have a single game where I am a king yet... Ive tried to start from the very beginning and haven't been able to get there yet. Also I hope the northern lords or tribal people have something similar...?
 
Germanicus_Caesar said:
I doubt we’ll get special imperial and ere mechanics in this dlc. Seems like ere will be addressed in a flavor pack since it’s “area specific content.”

But of course, I could be wrong so we’ll see!
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I think Paradox is also trying to avoid the issue of needing DLC X to fully use DLC Y.
 
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As some people said before, it would be nice to hear that it is part of your plan to create the DLC, which will give some mechanics, privileges and rights to powerful dukes and especially to members of council. As an example, you have great voting mechanic in CK2 (vote for/against declaring war or laws reform). Of course, that is small way to influence your liege, but pretty attractive. Or, for example, giving "grand duke" right to initiate a voting between council members to change some laws/individual duties, granting/taking titles of some vassals or choosing royal spouse (allusion of one russian empire chancellor (foreign affairs minister), who have chosen spouses for Catherine II grandchildren, because she ordered him to do so). Last variant is more possible when vassals get much control over their liege, I think...

P. S. - My sincerest regards - please, give us, finally, choice of coat of arms. I do not mean making separate update just for this, no. I mean you, possibly, can create button to open spreadsheet, where we can choose most preferable coat of arms from "pool". Sometimes I was full of anger, waiting for about 30 minutes to get desired eagle emblem. I also appreciate if you will do that separately from DLC with coat of arms editor/creation menu, so we could not wait that important feature for much longer time.

Oh, I just had that "Eurica" moment - you can give each council member his own right. For example, for finance advisor it would be right to steal some money from liege treasury in decisions menu. For diplomacy advisor - right to appoint/recommend spouses for his liege children or getting bonus alliance with one of his liege allies (in reality these advisors had to make long visits to royal courts of other realms to get good reputation for future parleys). For marshal - military buff and right to use kingdom forces if he has huge support of other people to usurpate the throne, because soldiers know him well. For intrigue advisor... here all is obvious enough - your liege can ignore your evil doings against others as long as you serve him loyally.

As my last word, I wanted to say thank you for paying attention to your audience and give my apologise to you for possible numerous mistakes in my speech, because I'm Russian, and rarely use Translate services for long and "thoughtful" monologues.
 
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the atom said:
How do hybrid cultures impact regal titles? If I'm a Greco-Persian emperor am I a Basileus or a Shahanshah? Or do I get to pick?
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They mix them together, so that one's going to be a Bashanshah.

Just kidding. ;) I'm curious as well. :)
 
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the atom said:
How do hybrid cultures impact regal titles? If I'm a Greco-Persian emperor am I a Basileus or a Shahanshah? Or do I get to pick?
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I would expect it to be tied to language (and that's how Community Title Project is tentatively expecting to be going to do that). But Pdx might come up with something better.
 
Viridianus said:
I would expect it to be tied to language (and that's how Community Title Project is tentatively expecting to be going to do that). But Pdx might come up with something better.
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When you combine cultures you only get access to the personal names for characters from only one of them, which is your choice, so I imagine the title names would also be from the same culture.
 
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