CK3 Summer Teaser #2

[Monalba]

Isolationist is a tradition, not an ethos. The Basques are probably also isolationist but that doesn't prevent them from having an egalitarian ethos.

You are absolutely right. I think I mixed them up because I saw ''isolationism'' in the description.
But also, the Egalitarian Ethos says in its description that ''Isolationism may be the way for others''. It would be hard to justify having both.

 

[pengoyo]

An increase to the vassal limit makes sense. A more egalitarian medieval society would involve a greater number of smaller landholders rather than land being concentrated in a few hands, which means more vassals with smaller domains.

Okay. That makes it make more sense.

Though still think popular opinion fits better thematically. And vassal limit rarely comes up (and a +5 isn't gonna do much when it does).

 

[wilcoxchar]

You are absolutely right. I think I mixed them up because I saw ''isolationism'' in the description.
But also, the Egalitarian Ethos says in its description that ''Isolationism may be the way for others''. It would be hard to justify having both.

The description says "intolerance and isolationism." So an egalitarian, isolationist culture would not try to expand outside its area or integrate other cultures, but if other cultures happened to enter the society they would tolerate them.

If you look at their mechanics, as currently balanced the culture acceptance gains cancel each other out, but a combined egalitarian, isolationist culture would still have +5 opinion to all cultures, +5 opinion for characters of a different faith, the decreased likelihood of characters wandering or marrying outside the culture, and a higher vassal limit. So it would basically be a culture that, while it does not seek to expand beyond its cultural boundaries, if a foreigner comes in and gets a piece of land, they're fine with it. Not intentionally outgoing and tending to stick to themselves and their own traditions, but not completely averse to outsiders either.

Which actually would fit the Basques decently given the history of Navarra.

 

[ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal]

An increase to the vassal limit makes sense. A more egalitarian medieval society would involve a greater number of smaller landholders rather than land being concentrated in a few hands, which means more vassals with smaller domains.

Should it be then:
Vassal limit + 5
Demesne limit - 1
Something like that ?

 

[TravlingCanuck]

I would argue that because it’s a disease resistance health buff, and because we see it’s on the polish culture, it could be argued that because the poles got out of the Black Death better then everyone else in Europe, they then get a disease resistance to mimic that

That effect would be fine, but it has nothing to do with stoicism. Being stoic is about being non-emotional, and not reacting to either the promise of pleasure or the fear of pain.

The health bonus and the reduction in friendly casualties makes me think the designers intended this ethos to be "Hearty" or "Tough". Stoicism as it's normally used is something quite different than being disease-resistant or less susceptible to harm.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Should it be then:
Vassal limit + 5
Demesne limit - 1
Something like that ?

Could be if they wanted to give ethoses a combination of both bonuses and penalties. But it looks like with the ethos being a much more unchangeable and foundational for a culture than traditions are, they may have decided for balance reasons to only give bonuses and not give penalties to an ethos.

You are absolutely right. I think I mixed them up because I saw ''isolationism'' in the description.
But also, the Egalitarian Ethos says in its description that ''Isolationism may be the way for others''. It would be hard to justify having both.

Reading back through the culture dev diaries, it doesn't look like your cultural ethos will block you from any traditions. However, the prestige cost of a tradition is affected by the culture's ethos, so it seems likely that if you are an egalitarian culture then adopting the isolationist tradition would be more expensive in that aspect.

 

[Rubidium]

I mean, the devs literally live in Scandinavia, presumably have access to a wide range of sources (in both English and Swedish!) on Scandinavia during the Viking Age, and still basically made Scandinavia into an ahistorical meme ultra-warrior society that lives only for blood and war (including using the first DLC to double-down on that portrayal), so I'm not sure why anyone should be surprised they made weird choices with Basque.

 

[Via Vixen]

Salutations!

Last week, we had a look at a few traditions. This time around, I figured we would show the remaining ethoses. We’ve shown you Bellicose, Inventive, and Spiritual previously. Below, you’ll find the remaining ones along with their effects.

I recommend the following;
Each culture in this game would be better served by raising the ethos value to 2 ethos per culture.
Merely, because it's easier to think of a culture as a cross between two ethos choices
like in the following examples of ( Bellicose Spiritualists, Courty Stoics, Communal Inventors, Spiritual Egalitarians and the like.)

 

[ArVass]

Amazing! Hungarian HAS to be Stoic imo

Whoever keeps downvoting this one without explanation, do you just hate me or you actually have a better suggestion?

 

[_Jackfish_]

Ah yes, i cant wait to create the egalitarian norse/russian warrior tribe built on sacraficing children

 

[Kapitalisti]

Oh boy, were gonna have so many Stellaris style "the very generic amd vague name of this particular ethos doesn't match my personal interpretation of it so fix now!" arguments after this comes out. AND we get to combine it the usual nationalism too! I love this new culture system and can't wait to actually play around with it but damn, I can just see the constant argument threads it's gonna spark based on definitions and modern stereotypes.

 

[Jarolleon]

Salutations!

Last week, we had a look at a few traditions. This time around, I figured we would show the remaining ethoses. We’ve shown you Bellicose, Inventive, and Spiritual previously. Below, you’ll find the remaining ones along with their effects. Remember that values and modifiers are a work in progress and may change!

View attachment 737732
[Image of the Communal ethos]

View attachment 737733
[Image of the Courtly ethos]

View attachment 737734
[Image of the Egalitarian ethos]

View attachment 737735
[Image of the Stoic ethos]​

That’s it for now!

So Stoic is really OP? Sounds realistic.

 

[Nevars]

Cosmopolitan

Stare back at ck2 cosmopolitan...

Well it need ck3 to make it's not useless choice I guess lol

 

[Kvelen]

Thanks a lot for the new content.

The developers forced the players to debate about philosophy (stoic). It's cool.

Indeed, the content in the game is complete now. Over time, this game becomes very easy and routine. Maybe you need to add a difficulty "hard" (more aggression from neighbors).

We need more mechanics in:
- politics (trade deals; ambassadors);
- economics;
- religion (conclave; to strengthen the role of the Pope).

 

[crowdemon]

Thanks Paradox.

 

[ArVass]

Oh boy, were gonna have so many Stellaris style "the very generic amd vague name of this particular ethos doesn't match my personal interpretation of it so fix now!" arguments after this comes out. AND we get to combine it the usual nationalism too! I love this new culture system and can't wait to actually play around with it but damn, I can just see the constant argument threads it's gonna spark based on definitions and modern stereotypes.

The definitions, effects, names and cultures assigned still don't make a lot of sense when combined in the case of Egalitarian and Communal, and noting that is not your "usual nationalism" or "personal interpretation". There's a certain amount of logical holes, inaccuracies, missed opportunities and terminological mistakes, not much, and multiple people have raised their voice regarding them, the same issues. You can't just call everyone wrong because they think its ethos is inaccurate for Basque, Egalitarian has a misleading name, Communal missing a cultural conversion bonus in exchange for building cost reduction is a missed opportunity (especially since the two cultures shown to use it are not regarded as masterful builders, but have successfully survived under foreign overlordship for centuries), or have a suggestion for certain cultures they care about.

 

[Secuter]

I also think some of these are rather.. misplaced. But what I'd like to hear the most is if these various ethos will have an impact on the game play if they are negligible bonuses that you largely forget about the second you look away. I think they should mean something more than the bonuses. They should help shape the society that surrounds them, with events matching the ethos that they have.

I just hope that they won't end up as the religious tenets which you look at when you create them, and then largely forgets them because you basically never use them for anything.

 

[TravlingCanuck]

I also think some of these are rather.. misplaced. But what I'd like to hear the most is if these various ethos will have an impact on the game play if they are negligible bonuses that you largely forget about the second you look away. I think they should mean something more than the bonuses. They should help shape the society that surrounds them, with events matching the ethos that they have.

I just hope that they won't end up as the religious tenets which you look at when you create them, and then largely forgets them because you basically never use them for anything.

I'm afraid that's exactly what they will be, based on what's been revealed so far. Now, if we get some unique Events or Decisions based on your ethos or traditions, then that'd be a different matter.

 

[LordLoko]

You seemed to be expecting this to happen... is there some wider context here with how Paradox have treated Basque culture in their games generally?

In the original CK2 they were one of the few cultures that could enact Absolute Cognatic laws (equal sucession between male and female) based on some documents from a certain era of medieval basque. Somehow this morphed into Basque begin some kind of egalitarian medieval culture.

 

[Fac0810]

Could the next (and last) Summer Teaser about the new cultures added by default (if any)?