pengoyo

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Hope you all are having a nice break.

I like most of the bonuses. But I find the vassal limit increase for egalitarian weird. I think it would be better to replace it with a +5 popular opinion (representing better treatment of the lower classes by the nobles) or some kind of bonus between men and women (maybe a reduced penalty for being a ruler of the wrong sex).

Also I still think having 2 ethoses per culture would be more interesting from a role-play perspective.
 
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henten

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I feel like either the ethos or the traditions should come with decent debuffs, I don’t think that the update should just buff everyone on the map, cultures should have negatives too. As an example an ethos like egalitarian could have more rebels or stoic could have a penalty to religious reformation cost. And for traditions you could have mountain(?) archers have a penalty to archers in forests or some other terrain.
 
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Dona

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Is there any plan about reducing vassal limit?
It is quite high and is never a limitation for conquer. Specially, it should be a limitant for tribal nations, as they can conquer a bunch of land quite easily.
If not, the +5 vassal limit is almost a joke.
 
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Tiax

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I would argue that because it’s a disease resistance health buff, and because we see it’s on the polish culture, it could be argued that because the poles got out of the Black Death better then everyone else in Europe, they then get a disease resistance to mimic that
But this isn't a special bonus for Polish culture - it's for every culture with Stoic as its ethos.
 
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Tiax

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I think it's fine for the Ethos to have fairly small effects. They describe the general "vibe" of a culture, they aren't some all-consuming definition of fundamentally what they are. I'd imagine for an Inventive culture you could have many traditions that make it lean more towards Bellicose etc.
The trouble I have with this is that if the whole game is a large number of minor effects, then any one individual effect is irrelevant. If I have a dozen sources of small opinion modifiers, then it doesn't really matter if I lose one or gain another. If my ethos is just one small fish among a sea of bonuses, does it really define the "vibe" of my culture? It could disappear or change and I wouldn't even notice!
 
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Viridianus

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1. I join everyone's voices on renaming Egalitarian to Cosmopolitan, and I join @King Anund's very loud voice to change Basque Ethos to Communal.
2. By the way, a next teaser could actually be the table which tells each culture's Ethos, since you started with those.
 
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fodazd

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My personal opinion: The fact that the bonuses from ethos are seemingly pretty minor is a good thing. Assigning historical cultures a single "ethos" is inherently reductive and in some cases potentially offensive. So if they are going to be a thing anyway, then I would prefer if they weren't actually that big of a deal.
 
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Debris94

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Some of you are a little too picky and negative towards change and maybe should consider that to be alternative history/counter factual history Crusader Kings 3 would have to be a mixture of so called realistic factual (since it seems to me that evidence could be actually interpreted to the investigators', historians', archaeologists', and anthropologists' preconceived ideas/philosophies in order to get the evidence to fit within their individual particular preconceived beliefs/philosophies) and theoretical/imaginative alternative created possibilities. For example the discussions on the Basque culture and history could vary depending on whether it is historians', archaeologists', and anthropologists of the diffusionist perspective looking at the evidence or historians, archaeologists, and anthropologists who are skeptical of the diffusionist perspective looking at the same set of evidence.
 
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Tiax

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so do I read it well that when was the concept of Ethoses revealed, people were all crazy how it will be too deterministic and strong...
and now the same people argue that those ethoses give too insignificant bonuses?

Okay, I know, I am sorry to speak against the sentiment..stone me to death
Things can be impactful in other ways than powerful bonuses. But if an "ethos" is just a set of bonuses, and those bonuses are insignificant, what does that say about ethos as a mechanic? Why even waste developer time implementing them?

I think this shows the weakness of designing every new mechanic as a pile of modifiers. They can't be too strong because they'll cause power creep, and they can't be too weak or else they may as well not exist. I think ethos would have been better served by being a narrative-driven mechanic, baked into events and interactions, rather than +5% whatever and +2 whatever. What we got is the worst of both worlds - dull bonuses that are too small to even matter.
 
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wilcoxchar

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Damn, having lived in and around the Basque country, I never would put them as ''egalitarian''.
I would have picked isolationist, since part of their identity over millennia has been to give everyone the middle finger and continue living according to their traditions and with their own language.
Isolationist is a tradition, not an ethos. The Basques are probably also isolationist but that doesn't prevent them from having an egalitarian ethos.
 
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wilcoxchar

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Hope you all are having a nice break.

I like most of the bonuses. But I find the vassal limit increase for egalitarian weird. I think it would be better to replace it with a +5 popular opinion (representing better treatment of the lower classes by the nobles) or some kind of bonus between men and women (maybe a reduced penalty for being a ruler of the wrong sex).

Also I still think having 2 ethoses per culture would be more interesting from a role-play perspective.
An increase to the vassal limit makes sense. A more egalitarian medieval society would involve a greater number of smaller landholders rather than land being concentrated in a few hands, which means more vassals with smaller domains.
 
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The effects of communal seem a bit weak to me in comparison to the others, Courtly in particular. Close family is a very small group that usually has rather high opinion modifiers, positive or negative, and a +5 to those doesn't seem much.
Probably house opinion would fit better. And for courtly courtier/guest opinion would be more appropriate. BTW, i think prowes bonus of bellicose would be more appropriate for stoic.

P.s. i have a feeling that north will be slapped with bellicose ethos, while historically they actually was egalitarian/cosmopolitan...
 
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