DerRitter

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It seems there is a mismatch between the names and the concepts they represent. Egalitarian is neither social (gender/family roles) nor economic egalitarianism, it is rather simply Cosmopolitanism.

It is very likely the dev who designed and named Egalitarian was different from the one that assigned it to the cultures, and without reading the description, assigned it to Basques.

Aside from fixing the fact Basques have it currently, the name could be changed to something more like Cosmopolitan to avoid confusions like this. It doesn't seem to be the first time the naming has shown to be subpar, like Bellicose which has outdated anthropology vocabulary connotations.
 
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It seems there is a mismatch between the names and the concepts they represent. Egalitarian is neither social (gender/family roles) nor economic egalitarianism, it is rather simply Cosmopolitanism.

It is very likely the dev who designed and named Egalitarian was different from the one that assigned it to the cultures, and without reading the description, assigned it to Basques.

Aside from fixing the fact Basques have it currently, the name could be changed to something more like Cosmopolitan to avoid confusions like this. It doesn't seem to be the first time the naming has shown to be subpar, like Bellicose which has outdated anthropology vocabulary connotations.
Yes, this is probably what happened. I'd even say that the people who named the Ethoses, assigned mechanics and descriptions to them, and assigned them to cultures, were three different teams/people who worked completely separately without communicating with eachother whatsoever.
 
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No. Nothing about the description and effects is right for Medieval Basques. The Codex Calixtinus even has testimony records that they didn't treat foreigners in a specially welcoming way.
Yeah I had the same impression from the way Basques are described in carolingian era.
What do you think would be the right traditions for Basques?
 
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Shouldn't egalitarian be renamed to something like "Cosmopolitan"?
Fits both modifiers and description WAY better
ethos_egalitarian.jpg
Egalitarianism isn't very much about "accepting difference" as it is about "equalizing society". Revolutionary France (yeah, yeah, I know, wrong era) was definitely an egalitarian society, but it definitely didn't just "accept the differences" between itself and Ancien Regime European monarchies;)
 
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basque culture has become the generic "equality" culture in CK starting with CK2, since they had equal succession for men and women in that game and they pretty much always get that in this game too. so they're pushing this further now to make them cultural egalitarians too apparently which makes no sense
Funny how the most typical Traditionalist people in Spain, to the point of starting two Civil Wars in Favor of the restoration of the Old Regime in the 19th Century, are thought to have been Progressive in the Middle Ages.
then why would they have it?
Because there is apparently this well-spread Myth about the Basques being somewhat of a bucolic society, democratic and egalitarian. A Myth by Romantic Folklorists and Basque Nationalists. Historical research, on the other hand, has pointed out that this is not the case.
Damn, having lived in and around the Basque country, I never would put them as ''egalitarian''.
I would have picked isolationist, since part of their identity over millennia has been to give everyone the middle finger and continue living according to their traditions and with their own language.
I wouldn't say isolationist is the best fit. There are several well known examples of Basque adventurers. Even in the Middle Ages, King Sancho VII of Navarre is well known for participating in the wars between the Christians and Muslims in Spain and for being an ally of Richard the Lionheart, to whom his sister was married.

In my opinion, Communal fits more: the description is on point, the time and reduction cost of buildings could be explained by the institution of auzolan (times where the whole village would participate in ceraint projects for the village), and the Family Opinion the strong familial bonds that the Basques usually are well known for. The Local Community (be it a village, town or city) was really importan for Medieval Basques, and they were very zealous in the defense of their Communal Rights, be it on a Local, Provincial or Kingdom level. For example, the First Carlist War erupted when the government of Madrid tried to abolish the Kingdom of Navarre and its own domestic laws and institution, as well as those of the other Basque Provinces.
 
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Liking that Communal ethos, seems like it'll be pretty useful in building your demesne early game before culture shifting for something more useful down the line.

That being said, I echo the sentiment that "Egalitarian" should probably be renamed "Cosmopolitan", and I feel like ethoses having negative modifiers on top of positive ones would make them more interesting - it would certainly have a larger impact on the gameplay and make the decision of choosing the different aspects of your culture more complex than simply picking whichever bonuses look more appealing with no concern for potential tradeoffs.
 
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These are...not good. Many of the effects don't really match the descriptions, and many effects feel so minor as to be irrelevant. I'm pretty sure I would forget I even had these as an ethos after a few years. It feels like there was just a fixed, short list of effects that could go on ethos, and so a bunch just got shoehorned in where they didn't fit.

Communal is a mix of close family and entire-culture bonuses (is it about family or community?) and a weird build-time modifier that doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything. It's not even build time in same-culture provinces or anything. It feels like it should be on an "industrious" or "architectural" ethos or something.

Courtly is probably the best of the bunch, as at least the bonuses generally make sense. However, they're all very unexciting. +15% prestige is certainly strong in the right context (especially if you can get it as a tribal ruler), but none of these bonuses will alter how I play a Courtly character as opposed to other cultures.

Egalitarian is a mess. And doesn't make any sense for Basque.

One thing I like about stoic is that it has some bonuses that I could take advantage of as another culture by having Polish vassals/counties - if I have a Polish general, I get the friendly casualties, and if I have a Polish border province, I get the defender advantage. On the other hand, it doesn't really make sense that my stoic general prevents my non-stoic troops from dying. It feels like a disconnect between the intended design (a bonus for a culture) and the actual gameplay effect (a bonus for a ruler who appoints a general of that culture).

This set of previews has definitely made me less excited about the expansion.
 
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I would argue that stoic should actually give you a health malus instead of a bonus.

If you are stoic and more or less indifferent to pain, this might lead you to not seek help. Your tooth infection will spread and become something else. You cough will turn into something more severe. Etc.
 
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Argh. Had to log in to ask if that small ugly indent at the start of the desciption paragraph will make it through to the final build? OCD-sense is tingling...
(The content is epic, btw!)
 
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Unknown Sage

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Wdym? That's how you normally write paragraphs
only if you have multiple ones that you want to distinguish between.

Argh. Had to log in to ask if that small ugly indent at the start of the desciption paragraph will make it through to the final build? OCD-sense is tingling...
(The content is epic, btw!)
But yeah thanks warthog2k. Now I cannot unsee this.
 
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Riamus

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and I feel like ethoses having negative modifiers on top of positive ones would make them more interesting - it would certainly have a larger impact on the gameplay and make the decision of choosing the different aspects of your culture more complex than simply picking whichever bonuses look more appealing with no concern for potential tradeoffs.
Not saying that having negatives in these would be bad, but keep in mind that there is more to the ethos than just the modifiers. The ethos will determine your court type and will also affect which traditions (and probably pillars) that are available to you. So you might really like Stoic, for example, but that choice may prevent you from choosing a more offensive combat boosting tradition that you really want. Note that this is just a possible result of choosing Stoic and may not be accurate, but it's hard to guess how they'll match things up at this point in time, so it's just a possible example. The point being just that your choice of ethos will have other effects than just what bonuses are directly on the ethos so there will be a larger impact on gameplay and it will be more complex choosing the "right" or "best" ethos.
 
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Argh. Had to log in to ask if that small ugly indent at the start of the desciption paragraph will make it through to the final build? OCD-sense is tingling...
(The content is epic, btw!)

Wdym? That's how you normally write paragraphs

only if you have multiple ones that you want to distinguish between.


But yeah thanks warthog2k. Now I cannot unsee this.

Considering the traditions and other tooltips don't use that space, I'm assuming it's a mistake and will be removed. I hope so because it does look odd.
 
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Provenance

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Both of the cultures you have shown already having it (Vlach and Afghan) have been ruled over by foreign cultures a lot & neither are particularly famous builders tbh.

Building in CK3 involves 99% stuff such as agriculture or military training rather than great architectural achievements.
 
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TravlingCanuck

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I would argue that stoic should actually give you a health malus instead of a bonus.

If you are stoic and more or less indifferent to pain, this might lead you to not seek help. Your tooth infection will spread and become something else. You cough will turn into something more severe. Etc.

Same with reducing friendly casualities. Having a stoic army may confer many battlefield benefits, but fewer deaths sure as heck isn't one of them! :)
 
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Liggi

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I think it's fine for the Ethos to have fairly small effects. They describe the general "vibe" of a culture, they aren't some all-consuming definition of fundamentally what they are. I'd imagine for an Inventive culture you could have many traditions that make it lean more towards Bellicose etc.
 
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henten

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I would argue that stoic should actually give you a health malus instead of a bonus.

If you are stoic and more or less indifferent to pain, this might lead you to not seek help. Your tooth infection will spread and become something else. You cough will turn into something more severe. Etc.

I would argue that because it’s a disease resistance health buff, and because we see it’s on the polish culture, it could be argued that because the poles got out of the Black Death better then everyone else in Europe, they then get a disease resistance to mimic that
 
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