I'm not sure I understand this thinking. Why should a culture be what makes a start difficult? This makes it sound like some cultures are inferior to others and are less successful in a deterministic way.
- 5
- 1
- 1
CK3 Summer Teaser #1
- Thread starter Servancour
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
yep, to me this and by the sword are S tier, isolationist look more a Nerf
I like them. They feel appropriate and historical. Some cultures and places are simply just set-dressing, not main characters in history. We shouldn't talk about the balance between different cultures and religions as if we're playing some MMOFPS. The past was unbalanced.
- 7
- 2
was it unbalanced culturally? you want to tell me some cultures are "set up to fail" and that they're worse than others?
- 2
- 1
Because the real world isn't perfectly balanced and some places have social and cultural customs, practices, and traditions that don't suit well to encouraging one or more of things like conquest, expansion, or profitable trade. Doesn't make them inferior, just different, and that's a good thing. It means that different cultures aren't going to all play the same and certain cultures might be either better or more challenging for certain playstyles.
- 13
- 6
- 1
it does make them inferior if they have more downsides than positives though. isolationist seems entirely useless in this game
- 5
- 2
The alternative way to view this is that different cultures have different conceptions of what it means to be "successful", and that the thing that's problematic is that the game mechanics take a prescriptive view of what it means for a nation or people to be successful. The game goes to great lengths to model the success or failure of conquest, but makes no effort to model the success of failure of community building. This makes an isolationist or inward-focused culture seem "difficult" or "weak".
- 17
- 4
I notice that there are some interesting Cultures names in these pictures. Will there be new cultures added to start date maps?
(note, I do not me the ability to create new cultures.)
(note, I do not me the ability to create new cultures.)
I can agree with this. My least favorite here and the obvious candidate for worst, isolationist, does have one bonus for control, but in the game as currently balanced that bonus is basically useless. If control did more or were harder to come by maybe it would be better but compared to the downsides it doesn't seem very useful at all.
- 3
It is you that read it that way. They're getting features that accurately portray their position during the timeline, a pro-historical plausibility move if you will.
- 8
- 1
Isolationist might seem entirely useless if all you care about in the game is map painting and conquest, sure. But it sounds very useful for a smaller scale, more tightly focused playthrough playing tall and building a highly developed, small monoculture kingdom. Like, as the given one shows, you might want to do as Sardinia. It also makes Sardinia and similar isolationist places more difficult for outsiders to control since they're going to resist cultural spread and hybridization and are not going to like being ruled by foreigners even more than other cultures.
- 11
- 1
Really excited for these features! I'm very curious about the Scania culture being mentioned, though; Will we be seeing additional cultures added to the game? Can it show up without player interference?
- 1
I think the trouble is that a bonus to control growth isn't even really valuable for that sort of playthrough - if you've got your small, well-run kingdom, what sources are giving you low control? It feels like whenever I play that way, I'm already at max control all the time. I think a bonus that feels a little more impactful and actually helps build a strong, tall kingdom would be more appropriate, and lead to more engaging gameplay.
- 7
- 4
exactly, control will go down if you're fighting wars but if you're a peaceful, stable realm you will essentially never have issues with it, making the tradition just have downsides. Keeping courtiers around isn't very important either, if you have a really good courtier most likely they'll have a job and won't become wanderers in the first place. It doesn't seem to do anything with how the game is balanced at the moment so for "RP" it's just a whole lot of nothing.
- 2
- 2
Sounds op but welcomed in this case. Skånepåg friendly devs confirmed
[Image of the By the Sword tradition]
- 3
So only vaguely related. What do you guys think of a system that allows one to over time slowly change existing traditions to new ones. Maybe at an increased cost? So that you can simulate cultures changing without having to create a completely new one.
Example here being say the scanians who have by the sword conquered a whole bunch of neighbouring kingdoms of hostile/evil religions and now find themselves mostly surrounded by realms of friendly religions. Logically they would make less use of the holy wars (assuming the new friendly kingdoms adopt or hybridize with the local culture and thus are no longer scanians).
If we cannot swap out the by the sword tradition for one that better fits the new era of the scanians in a time where friendly religions are all around them that harms RP in a way.
Now I know a bunch of responses are going to be just diverge and make a new culture. But this comes with problems of its own. When you want to play as a specific culture and shape that cultures future, then diverging means you aren't that culture anymore. Sure you could give it the exact same name and colour but that will only get confusing real fast when you are trying to figure out which of the two (or three in case of multiple diverges) scanian cultures is the one you want to educate your vassals in. A more mechanical problem is the fact that without the ability to just switch single traditions for others this means that if you diverge, but then later think you should have also swapped that other tradition you now need to diverge all over again which adds to the culture border gore.
So TLDR: I think we need a way to swap out traditions of existing cultures without changing to a new culture to avoid unnecessary clutter of the culture map mode. Perhaps for twice the prestige cost of adding the tradition in an empty tradition slot
Example here being say the scanians who have by the sword conquered a whole bunch of neighbouring kingdoms of hostile/evil religions and now find themselves mostly surrounded by realms of friendly religions. Logically they would make less use of the holy wars (assuming the new friendly kingdoms adopt or hybridize with the local culture and thus are no longer scanians).
If we cannot swap out the by the sword tradition for one that better fits the new era of the scanians in a time where friendly religions are all around them that harms RP in a way.
Now I know a bunch of responses are going to be just diverge and make a new culture. But this comes with problems of its own. When you want to play as a specific culture and shape that cultures future, then diverging means you aren't that culture anymore. Sure you could give it the exact same name and colour but that will only get confusing real fast when you are trying to figure out which of the two (or three in case of multiple diverges) scanian cultures is the one you want to educate your vassals in. A more mechanical problem is the fact that without the ability to just switch single traditions for others this means that if you diverge, but then later think you should have also swapped that other tradition you now need to diverge all over again which adds to the culture border gore.
So TLDR: I think we need a way to swap out traditions of existing cultures without changing to a new culture to avoid unnecessary clutter of the culture map mode. Perhaps for twice the prestige cost of adding the tradition in an empty tradition slot
- 3
- 1
- 1
Divergence covers most of it, but it's possible we might see events that relate to replacing "no longer relevant" traditions.
An alternative would be to be able to rename the culture you're leaving (say to "Old Scanian") and create "Scanian" with the replaced tradition as a divergence.
There is though the problem with changing an existing culture that you're changing it for *everyone* not just your realm, so Scanians who could use the "By The Sword" tradition might get annoyed if they lost it to you changing the culture like that.
- 1
.png){kind=avatar}
By your logic roleplayers don't need any balance anyway because they can just handicap themselves and "not conquer the world", "not do [anything else]", right? How would "balancing for roleplayers" even look like anyway?
- 4
what more can you tell us guys on how the next DLC will impact the gameplay? tease us a little more please