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Urkaun

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Apr 20, 2020
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Ain't green the color you use for reconstructions?Doesn't exist in recorded time, but definitely could be fossilized in a toponym. Or do you have evidence that West Germanic borrowed the root after West-North split?

I don't even think pad exists in modern Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Icelandic. Medelpad didn't exist in the time period so the name is late. As a rule, word initial p is very rare in Old Norse, except for borrowings, mostly from Latin and Middle Low German.

The only native Old Norse words beginning with p that aren't borrowings are padda (toad), plógr (plough), pái (peacock) and píka (young girl). Even pái, which evolved from Proto-Germanic pāwô, was a borrowing from Latin pāvō.
 
Last edited:

Viridianus

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@Urkaun, Swedish Wikipedia actually suggests that "Pad" is a legitimate Old Swedish term; this is little proof, of course, since it's, well, Wikipedia.
As for general rarity of #p-: Wiktionary suggests that the "path" root is an Iranic borrowing into Proto-Germanic, citing "From Proto-Indo-European to Proto-Germanic" by Donald Ringe of 2006. (Given that Iranian nomads ruled over much over Grand Principality of Lithuania's territory at a certain time and can still be traced anthropologically, that's not that far-fetched.) Therefore, it can be "native" for Old Norse just like pái is.
 

Cèsar de Quart

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When I was doing the Catalan titles, I ran into a wee problem: viscounts.

Historically, what the game calls "barons" were intitled viscounts in most of the Frankish sphere (in France and Catalonia, 9-10th Century counties always had a viscount, sometimes two) - "Baron" is a generic term, meaning "landed gentleman of some importance". You'd have barons, and one of these barons would be X, viscount of Y. Using Baron as a base title in France and Catalonia goes agains immersion.

Meanwhile, in Castile and the other Iberian kingdoms, low-ranking lordships were merely lordships, señoríos (there also more complex forms of weird communal nobility titles, like solares, but let's just brush that aside). Counts existed, as well as marquises (but most of them are of later creation). So the name "barón" doesn't really work there either.

Same goes with Dukes. A Duke was a title that was a big deal in France and Germany, but in England and Spain... there were no dukes. Not until the French tradition of investing family members with duchies (early appanages, basically) seeped through, and then the English created the Duchy of Cornwall around the 1340's, while in Spain the first Duke I've been able to find(Visigothic era Duces don't count) is the Duke of Girona (later Prince of Girona), a title for the heir of Aragon. Castile bestowed the Duchy of Medina-Sidonia onto Juan Pérez de Guzmán in the 1440's, much later (if there's any other dukes previous to this one, I haven't found them).

The title Prince has been used sparcely and almost never in a hereditary sense, more of a descriptor, as in "the great lord of". El Cid has been described sometimes as Pinceps Valenciae. This isn't really a title, it just meants "He wasn't a count, he wasn't a marquis, he wasn't a king... he was a lord, an important one, and ruled over Valencia independently from others". Same thing when Mir Geribert proclaimed himself Prince of Olerdola, only to spite the Count of Barcelona.

The title Marquis could be an alternative to Duke in Spain, even if this is exactly the best solution. But the thing is that, basically, using Dukes and Barons in Spain kinda makes Spain feel like a fantasy land of casltes and dragons a little bit, not like real Medieval Spain.

Do you think translating the English "baron" into the equivalent Viscount would work? What about Dukes?
 

TheGib770

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These are new things that weren't in ck2 from the localization.

Code:
 king_feudal_male_arabic_group:1 "Malik"
 king_feudal_female_arabic_group:1 "Malika"
 kingdom_feudal_arabic_group:1 "Malikate"
 king_feudal_muslim_male_arabic_group:0 "Sultan"
 king_feudal_muslim_female_arabic_group:0 "Sultana"
 kingdom_feudal_muslim_arabic_group:0 "Sultanate"

Separate localizations between religions AND cultures.

Code:
swiss_confederation:0 "Confederation"
count_feudal_male_e_britannia:0 "Earl"
count_feudal_female_e_britannia:0 "Countess"
county_feudal_e_britannia:0 "Earldom"
count_feudal_male_k_wales:0 "Lord"
count_feudal_female_k_wales:0 "Lady"
county_feudal_k_wales:0 "Lordship"
county_isle:0 "Isle"

localazation linked to tiltle.

Code:
 king_feudal_male_grand_duke_independent:0 "Grand Duke"
king_feudal_female_grand_duke_independent:0 "Grand Duchess"
kingdom_feudal_grand_duke_independent:0 "Grand Duchy"

king_feudal_male_grand_prince_independent:0 "Grand Prince"
king_feudal_female_grand_prince_independent:0 "Grand Princess"
kingdom_feudal_grand_prince_independent:0 "Grand Principality"

duke_feudal_male_prince_independent:0 "Prince"
duke_feudal_female_prince_independent:0 "Princess"
duchy_feudal_prince_independent:0 "Principality"

Some predictions are true.

Still looking into Marches and Palatinates.
 

Urkaun

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Apr 20, 2020
303
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These are new things that weren't in ck2 from the localization.

Code:
 king_feudal_male_arabic_group:1 "Malik"
king_feudal_female_arabic_group:1 "Malika"
kingdom_feudal_arabic_group:1 "Malikate"
king_feudal_muslim_male_arabic_group:0 "Sultan"
king_feudal_muslim_female_arabic_group:0 "Sultana"
kingdom_feudal_muslim_arabic_group:0 "Sultanate"

Separate localizations between religions AND cultures.

Code:
swiss_confederation:0 "Confederation"
count_feudal_male_e_britannia:0 "Earl"
count_feudal_female_e_britannia:0 "Countess"
county_feudal_e_britannia:0 "Earldom"
count_feudal_male_k_wales:0 "Lord"
count_feudal_female_k_wales:0 "Lady"
county_feudal_k_wales:0 "Lordship"
county_isle:0 "Isle"

localazation linked to tiltle.

Code:
 king_feudal_male_grand_duke_independent:0 "Grand Duke"
king_feudal_female_grand_duke_independent:0 "Grand Duchess"
kingdom_feudal_grand_duke_independent:0 "Grand Duchy"

king_feudal_male_grand_prince_independent:0 "Grand Prince"
king_feudal_female_grand_prince_independent:0 "Grand Princess"
kingdom_feudal_grand_prince_independent:0 "Grand Principality"

duke_feudal_male_prince_independent:0 "Prince"
duke_feudal_female_prince_independent:0 "Princess"
duchy_feudal_prince_independent:0 "Principality"

Some predictions are true.

Still looking into Marches and Palatinates.

That's good news, at least we know we can make independent County-Rank Norse rulers into petty kings like dróttinn or just konungr.
 

TheGib770

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That's good news, at least we know we can make independent County-Rank Norse rulers into petty kings like dróttinn or just konungr.
You can just do that thru culture modding, no need for localisations.


All cultures are on the main title sheet now. PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THE FIRST TWO ROWS
 

Urkaun

Captain
Apr 20, 2020
303
1.037
You can just do that thru culture modding, no need for localisations.


All cultures are on the main title sheet now. PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THE FIRST TWO ROWS

I didn't know there was a Dutch culture (wasn't on the prerelease maps) but I'm pleasantly surprised. I'm going to move the Franconian localisation to Dutch and the give Franconian localisation the same Old High German localisation as Bavaria and Swabia, since Franconia did undergo the High German Consonant Shift, making it a Old High German dialect.