CK3 Ruler Title Project

[ArVass]

March, Principalities, and archduchy title are added because ck2 titles could have conditions and I'm hoping you can link feudal contract types as conditions.

I think that if this was possible, they would've already implemented it

 

[Viridianus]

Am I the only one who's put off by the incoherent grammar of the phrase "Roy Guillaume of France Orientale has declared war against Konung Haraldr of Sverige"?

Yes. The grammar (=syntax) of this phrase is English, "France Orientale" is just borrowed as a whole.

Would you prefer the out of syncs I mentioned?

I doubt there are enough Multiplayer players among ourselves to judge the argument of synchronization for its whole worth. But I'm more interested in the "cheating" part. How can localization give way for cheating?

SPYMASTER. Get rid of it.

Suggest this to Pdx, not to us; our first column is supposed to reflect what Pdx uses.

I think that if this was possible, they would've already implemented it

Disagreed; they have limited and, to my feeling, declining interest in non-translating localizations.

 

[TheGib770]

I think that if this was possible, they would've already implemented it

It was already possible in ck2. I'm just hoping it can be as easy as the contracts using honorary titles vs. completely adding new landed titles.

 

[Urkaun]

Impressive work, but personally, not for me.
I myself would use localised titles only when they're of some special cultural significance or do not directly translate to english equivalent, so using Shah or Sultan is fine, but Roi or Emperour, is not.
I wouldn't even use Kaiser, since I almost never saw it untranslated except when referring to Second Reich (and 99% it referred to Wilhelm II specifically). Furtherore, medieval HRE is universal christian empire, not specifically of German nation, another reason to not use endonym.

Well, Shah and sultan are in the base game anyway so if you prefer it that way, just don't download the mod. This thread is specifically for localisation in a future mod.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Suggest this to Pdx, not to us; our first column is supposed to reflect what Pdx uses..

I was saying it because most of the translations I've seen of "Spymaster" in different languages are just "Spymaster" in those different language. I was suggesting that Spymaster be treated as a Chamberlain, but it has already been made clear that it's not a popular opinion.

 

[Urkaun]

I believe they officialy used Imperator Romanorum which is Emperor of the Romans. If translated into the native tongue they would probably use Romisch Kaiser. While you do have a point that the HRE may not always use Kaiser, the Germans definitely did. If anything Imperator Romanorum would be a good conditional title for a christian emperor of the HRE.

Imperator Romanum would be the Latin title. The vernacular German titles of the period would be something like:

Rûmisc Keisur /'ru:.misc/'kei̯.sur/ (Old High German 750s-1050s AD)

Rœmesch Keiser /'rø:.məʃ/'kei̯.sər/ (Middle High German 1050s-1500s AD)

In Old High German, I-umlaut only occurs for a /a/, producing e /e/ but in Middle High German it's much more productive. In Middle High German, I-umlaut affects short o /o/ > ö /ø/ and short u /u/ > ü /y/ and long ô /o:/ > œ /ø:/ and long û /u:/ > iu /y:/.

 

[Viridianus]

In Old High German, I-umlaut only occurs for a /a/, producing e /e/ but in Middle High German it's much more productive.

That's what their writing systems say; however, attestations from either languages seem to show that fronting of o and u likely also happened long before 1050. (Same seems to be true for Saxon, though the situation is more difficult there.)

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

That's what their writing systems say; however, attestations from either languages seem to show that fronting of o and u likely also happened long before 1050. (Same seems to be true for Saxon, though the situation is more difficult there.)

Isn't writing what matters here, though?

 

[Urkaun]

CKIII has 'culture eras' with:

Tribal (476-950 AD)
Early Medieval (950-1050 AD)
High Medieval (1050-1250 AD)
Late Medieval (1250 AD onwards)

Because of this, you could have Norse culture using Norðrrǿnn localisation from the 867 AD start date until the year 1250 AD, at which point it breaks up into Old Danish (Dansk), Old Norwegian (Nornskr) and Old Swedish (Svænskær) and starts using those localisations.

Likewise, the Franconian, Swabian and Bavarian cultures would use Old High German (Diutisc) localisation and the Saxon culture would use Old Saxon (Sahsisk) localisation from 867-1050 AD. Then in 1050 AD, the Franconian, Swabian and Bavarian cultures start using Middle High German (Diutsch) localisation and the Saxon culture starts using Middle Low German (Sassisch).

 

[Viridianus]

Because of this, you could have Norse culture using Norðrrǿnn localisation from the 867 AD start date until the year 1250 AD, at which point it breaks up into Old Danish (Dansk), Old Norwegian (Nornskr) and Old Swedish (Svænskær) and starts using those localisations.

1)I don't think that split of cultures is directly linked to technology eras. 2)Judging by CKII, if it's linked to those eras, the split will be linked to 1050 or even 950 not 1250.

 

[Palfouri]

For the middle french translation, most words are translated in modern French rather than middle French. I am a Frenchman and here are some translations I suggest (although I am not an expert) :

I used : http://www2.atilf.fr/dmf/

English - Modern French - Middle French


Empress - Empereuse (Impératrice) - Emperesse
King - Roi - Roy
Queen - Reine - Reyne
Heir Apparent - Dauphin - Daulphin (or Daufin)
Heir Apparent (f) - Dauphine - Daulphine - Note : She is not the heiress but the wife of the Dauphin. The word can be used somewhat ahistorically for those who do not want 100% historical accuracy.
Marquess - Marquis - Marchis (you can also use Marquis)
Marchioness - Marquise - Marchise (you can also use Marquise)
Count - Comte - Conte
Countess - Comtesse - Contesse
Elector - Électeur - Electeur
Elector (f) - Électrice - Electrice
Kingdom - Royaume - Royaulme
Principality - Principauté - Principaulté
County - Comté - Conté

Based on the dates this dictionary gives for what constitutes the Middle French period, would it be more appropriate to use Old French since the former would only exist for about the last 100 years of the game's timeframe? Or is there not really enough of a difference?

 

[Urkaun]

1)I don't think that split of cultures is directly linked to technology eras. 2)Judging by CKII, if it's linked to those eras, the split will be linked to 1050 or even 950 not 1250.

No, but I'm saying the split from Old Norse language to Old Danish, Old Swedish and Old Norwegian with the corresponding change in localisation should be in 1250 AD. The split from Old Norse culture to Danish (Danskr from 1050-1250 AD; Dansk from 1250 AD onwards), Norwegian (Nornskr from 1050 AD onwards) and Swedish (Svænskr from 1050-1250 AD; Svænskær from 1250 AD onwards). That's pretty much how Erilaz did it in his Norse Heritage Overhaul submod of HIP. The cultures could split in 1050 AD but the language/localisation should split in 1250 AD.

 

[TheGib770]

That's pretty much how Erilaz did it in his Norse Heritage Overhaul submod of HIP. The cultures could split in 1050 AD but the language/localisation should split in 1250 AD.

The mod added cultures not just localization. By having the cultures change to middle versions, the parent culture is no longer the same and the new cultures get opinion debuffs. I doubt paradox allows localization based on eras.

 

[Aemr]

Somebody has unilaterally edited most of the Anglo-Saxon titles and reintroduced the diacritics at the same time. I've put a couple back to how they were.

Read the rules folks. If you disagree label it yellow and start a discussion, don't just barge in and tear up other people's work.

 

[blackninja9939]

Let's say Alice and Bob want to play CK in multiplayer, Alice has the game language set to English, while Bob to Korean. Are you saying they would have different checksums or having out of syncs? And if not, what is the fundamental difference between having completely different localizations (again, assuming it actually works) and having culture-specific titles while keeping everything else?

Its not the fact its localization, its the fact that the gui and localization use the same core system. So checksumming one pretty much mandates checksumming the other. And the gui system can be made to run various effects as cheats, which if not implemented by the cheater will out of sync by not posting commands to the server correctly.
It is not ideal, and I would like to investigate splitting the checksums to be a "soft" checksum that just warns on joining MP servers instead of blocks fully, but that is a very low priority thing for obvious reasons.

I doubt there are enough Multiplayer players among ourselves to judge the argument of synchronization for its whole worth. But I'm more interested in the "cheating" part. How can localization give way for cheating?

Well and easy one is you can change tooltips to reveal huge amounts of information about the game state that is not normally shown. It would be trivial to via localization only to enable the debug character tooltip despite not being allowed to go into debug mode.

 

[Ruwaard]

Perhaps Bretwalda could be the general term, and Casere the exception for being HRE/ERE?

Perhaps it should be the other way around. Bretwalda being the exception for the empire of the British Isles, and Casere being the general term?

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Perhaps it should be the other way around. Bretwalda being the exception for the empire of the British Isles, and Casere being the general term?

I like this option better. Bretwalda should be a British title, while a Roman or simply "generic" title of Emperor (if Emperor can be called a generic title in the Middle Ages...) should go with the Latin-origin term.

 

[Ruwaard]

The Dutch part is way too modern, when compared to some of the other entries. For SWMH I made the title lists for the continental Western Germanic (this includes what Paradox calls Central Germanic). I could add a Low Frankish (Old Dutch) and a Middle Dutch one. The current one in the file is Modern Dutch.

 

[b_raven]

Русский (correct to spell with 2 "c") is marked as dead language
BTW, great job.

 

[Erendir]

Its not the fact its localization, its the fact that the gui and localization use the same core system. So checksumming one pretty much mandates checksumming the other.

Soooo... Does this mean switching to different localization actually does change the checksum?