CK3 Ruler Title Project

[TheGib770]

Changed to mod sub forum

 

[Tenderkaj]

Did the Italian part - to the best of my knowledge. Hope it helps!

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I, like many others, like to feel immersed in my games. The way I like to be immersed in ck2 was having the proper ruler titles for characters.

So I put together a spreadsheet of possible ruler titles in ck3 and some of the cultures I saw were in the game.

Change your Google display name if you don't want it public. This is the sheet link. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h_FkusqaFE_uAw0n1HUPFTqg4Ojq8DZqt-sR0eFagyo/edit?usp=sharing

Obviously English is my only language, so I figured opening up this to those more keen on their own language and history should correct me. So far I marked everything in red as not done and yellow is titles I'm pretty sure are wrong. Feel free to make fun of me for every word I think is right.

There are only feudal titles listed as I do not know the clan system and tribals will work yet. Use 'Malik' instead of 'Sultan.' March, Principalities, and archduchy title are added because ck2 titles could have conditions and I'm hoping you can link feudal contract types and conditions.

I haven't added every Eastern and African culture yet. I do this in my free time.

You're missing a couple of roles on that sheet.

There's no entry for an elective heir apparent (the Tanist in Celtic circles, with mutliple spellings depending on culture)

You also appear to be missing entries for "Chief" type titles (maybe for tribals, maybe as replacements).

You'll also need actual modern English entries for some of the minor titles (like female knights - for whom I'd suggest Dame, and female mayors - obviously mayoress); you'd probably want to have an entry for English counts to be localised as Earls.

Then there's that a historic King of Ireland would have been Ard Rí, and that various levels of "Ri" were used down the scale of provincial and tribal kings in old Ireland.

"Petty" kings of the Heptarchy in England carried the title of King - even though they're by game terms independent Dukes, so that's something to watch for.

I think with the information from here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witenagemot the electors for Saxon/Old English could be Witan, but I'm not confident enough to add it.

 

[TheGib770]

You're missing a couple of roles on that sheet.

There's no entry for an elective heir apparent (the Tanist in Celtic circles, with mutliple spellings depending on culture)

You also appear to be missing entries for "Chief" type titles (maybe for tribals, maybe as replacements).

You'll also need actual modern English entries for some of the minor titles (like female knights - for whom I'd suggest Dame, and female mayors - obviously mayoress); you'd probably want to have an entry for English counts to be localised as Earls.

Then there's that a historic King of Ireland would have been Ard Rí, and that various levels of "Ri" were used down the scale of provincial and tribal kings in old Ireland.

"Petty" kings of the Heptarchy in England carried the title of King - even though they're by game terms independent Dukes, so that's something to watch for.

I think with the information from here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witenagemot the electors for Saxon/Old English could be Witan, but I'm not confident enough to add it.

I do not have any titles for tribal or Muslim governments. I have not seen enough of the game to see what is good to add.

Ill add a 2nd sheet for conditional titles like Ard Ri. Ck2 had a system for conditional title names by kingdom/duchy/ etc. So it should be fine for the King of Ireland to be Ard Ri.

Petty kings weren't handled by localization in ck2 and instead dukes were upgraded to king via a culture condition statement: dukes_called_kings

Middle english will be used for the english culture in game not modern english. I used knight f to make it clearer for english second speakers who might not know what Dame means.

Ill add some of the rest of your suggestions as well. Thanks!

 

[Karlington]

female mayors - obviously mayoress

I'd recommend using "mayor" for female mayors as well. Not because you are wrong (you are in fact correct), but because mayoress is also the title of a mayor's wife. For that reason I believe that using "mayor" as a gender neutral term helps prevent confusion.

 

[Alenarae118]

I noticed that you used Cyningdom for Kingdom and Rice for empires, but in my limited research on Old English, the term Rice is used interchangeably with that of kingdom and empire.

For Instance the official names of the Heptarchy Kingdoms make use of Rice in their Old English names and no where in my limited research did I see the term Cyningdom used for the word Kingdom in their names in Old English.
The Names of the Heptarchy:

Westseaxna rīċe, The Kingdom of the West Saxons
Miercna rīċe, The name is a Latinisation of the Old English Mierce or Myrce (West Saxon dialect; Merce in the Mercian dialect itself), meaning "border people", essentially 'Kingdom of the Border People' (Roughly as a guess from myself, may not actually translate as that)
Norþanhymbra Rīċe, The name derives from the Old English Norþan-hymbre meaning "the people or province north of the Humber"
Sūþseaxna rīce, The Kingdom of the South Saxons
Cantwara rīce, The Kingdom of the Kentish
Ēastseaxna rīce, The Kingdom of the East Saxons
Ēastengla Rīċe, The Kingdom of the East Angles

So while Cyningdom does mean Kingdom, it doesn't seem to have actually been used, unless you have sources that show otherwise. But in all examples Rice is used to refer to kingdoms. with Rice meaning “dominion, realm” being the predecessor to the middle English term -ric, such as in Bishopric, being similar to German Reich.

 

[TheGib770]

I changed it. Though I might make it Cyningrice and Casererice for clarity.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I'd recommend using "mayor" for female mayors as well. Not because you are wrong (you are in fact correct), but because mayoress is also the title of a mayor's wife. For that reason I believe that using "mayor" as a gender neutral term helps prevent confusion.

With perhaps "lord mayor" and "lady mayor" as county or duke tier?
Perhaps prince-mayor and princess-mayor at duke tier?

@Shiner770 It might also be worth considering if "High King" or a calque thereof would be a valid "Emperor" title for the Anglo-Saxon (and maybe Saxon and Norse) culture list? Maybe Arc(ec)yning - I don't know if Old English would collapse the second c in that case?
Historically for Britain they were trying to all claim Bretwalda, so this might also be a valid option if you take the meaning of "broad-ruling" rather than "Briton-ruling" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretwalda#Etymology)

 

[Alenarae118]

I changed it. Though I might make it Cyningrice and Casererice for clarity.

well, ck2 has similar titles for different ranks, take for instance independent duchies are referred to as petty kingdoms, despite not being Kingdoms, so it should be fine to use Rice for both.

 

[TheGib770]

It might also be worth considering if "High King" or a calque thereof would be a valid "Emperor" title for the Anglo-Saxon (and maybe Saxon and Norse) culture list? Maybe Arc(ec)yning - I don't know if Old English would collapse the second c in that case?
Historically for Britain they were trying to all claim Bretwalda, so this might also be a valid option if you take the meaning of "broad-ruling" rather than "Briton-ruling" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretwalda#Etymology)

Or Bretwalda as a conditional title for holding the kingdom of England as an anglosaxon?

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Or Bretwalda as a conditional title for holding the kingdom of England as an anglosaxon?

It could be. It is a logical place for a unique title if you wanted to use it that way, either as k_England, or e_Britannia.

I was just ticking back through the list, and the thought came to me that "Bretwalda" is ambiguous as to its meaning, and might be an appropriate "Emperor" title.
I am by no means an expert in the area of Anglo-Saxon or Old English though.

 

[TheGib770]

Anglo-saxons definitely didn't use the feudal system laid out in ck2 (and ck3) and the game is an ahistorical sandbox. I feel as though an anglo saxon ruler would use Casere if he were in charge of the HRE (for whatever reason).

Thats why I included Prince, elector, Archdukes, and grand dukes.

 

[Alenarae118]

Yeah Bretwalda could work as an alternate name for Emperor tier Old English Titles, Casere works, but Bretwalda sounds better.

 

[Viridianus]

I'd recommend using "mayor" for female mayors as well. Not because you are wrong (you are in fact correct), but because mayoress is also the title of a mayor's wife. For that reason I believe that using "mayor" as a gender neutral term helps prevent confusion.

The "confusion" is integral for most cases: female regnant term is often back-deduced from female consort term, because for most of them we have few or no actual precedents.

Unrelatedly, generic Priest/Bishop terms also seem to have differed, yet you don't cover them. Any specific reason?

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Anglo-saxons definitely didn't use the feudal system laid out in ck2 (and ck3) and the game is an ahistorical sandbox. I feel as though an anglo saxon ruler would use Casere if he were in charge of the HRE (for whatever reason).

Thats why I included Prince, elector, Archdukes, and grand dukes.

Yeah Bretwalda could work as an alternate name for Emperor tier Old English Titles, Casere works, but Bretwalda sounds better.

Perhaps Bretwalda could be the general term, and Casere the exception for being HRE/ERE?

 

[TheGib770]

Unrelatedly, generic Priest/Bishop terms also seem to have differed, yet you don't cover them. Any specific reason?

Arent the Catholoc Archbishops in charge of all temples in the realm in ck3? Without full knowledge of how the other religions work, I don't know if I can add every tier. I'm trying to keep in within the scope of what I know is in the game and what I know I can add to the game.

 

[Viridianus]

Arent the Catholoc Archbishops in charge of all temples in the realm in ck3? Without full knowledge of how the other religions work, I don't know if I can add every tier. I'm trying to keep in within the scope of what I know is in the game and what I know I can add to the game.

Not as the holdings' holder but as the tax collector if I understand the dev diary correctly. So there should still be bishops in individual temple holdings, seeing as holdings cannot now be separated from their counties.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Aren't priest titles mostly controlled by the religion rather than the culture?

 

[Tuo]

I filled out the Finnish titles to the best of my knowledge, though it should be noted that most of those only begun to see use under Swedish control.

 

[Viridianus]

Aren't priest titles mostly controlled by the religion rather than the culture?

Technically culture can override religion for those as well (though CKII vanilla doesn't seem to use the possibility). Whether we want to see this is another question, of course.