CK3 Dev Diary Delays - February 2022

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BrotherJonathan

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I think this is explainable.

When PDX say something, people (understandably) take it as gospel and hold them to it.

When something PDX has said doesn't materialize, people get irate and post that they've been lied to, which in turn generates bad publicity and entrenches negative feeling.

Thus, the solution is to say nothing, because it means they are not being held accountable for anything in particular - even if you may argue (fairly) that this is the worst solution of all.

I think this is also why PDX essentially stopped replying to bug reports, because clearly a lot of them are never actually implemented, but because they were replied to people assumed that meant they were going to be.

There is a community guy here - I know this because I've seen him on a few streams, but aside from that I'm not sure what he does. He may as well not even have a forum profile.
Not to mention that there are a few members of our community who get a little bit...overly irate about issues being fixed.
If memory serves there was someone in the HOI forums who almost got banned because he was so angry about a bug not being patched that he kept threatening to file criminal charges against the devs for fraud.
They are definitely a minority, but they do exist.
 

Toybasher

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I think this is explainable.

When PDX say something, people (understandably) take it as gospel and hold them to it.

When something PDX has said doesn't materialize, people get irate and post that they've been lied to, which in turn generates bad publicity and entrenches negative feeling.

Thus, the solution is to say nothing, because it means they are not being held accountable for anything in particular - even if you may argue (fairly) that this is the worst solution of all.

I think this is also why PDX essentially stopped replying to bug reports, because clearly a lot of them are never actually implemented, but because they were replied to people assumed that meant they were going to be.

There is a community guy here - I know this because I've seen him on a few streams, but aside from that I'm not sure what he does. He may as well not even have a forum profile.
I have read it's common for people to not give deadlines they're uncertain or not confident of hitting.

Usually better to not give one compared to giving a "Yeah we'll have it fixed by X date", then something unexpected happens (New fix ends up breaking something else) and the fix takes longer than expected.

People feel lied to, as you said, because they were told it'd be done by X date, and get upset when that date passes and the fix isn't out yet. (Even though it might be something that was discovered mid-way through to be hard to fix.)

On the subject of council events, from what I have read, while modders HAVE fixed the problem, the fix was a bit of a workaround. There's some new system that triggers certain actions including council events, and this new script or whatever is broken and not working right. The modders have, IIRC, fixed it by making it use the old system again. It's a workaround, and what really needs to be done is fixing the new script.

I'm getting a little impatient myself, but I imagine it's usually better for one big bugfix update which fixes most of the issues instead of like 8 smaller updates fixing only 1 or 2 issues at a time. (And some of the fixes end up breaking other stuff until the next mini-update)

I just think some of the issues could use a hotfix though as they're somewhat major.
 
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DAVEQC78

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I have a question, I don't know where to ask it. I can't find the Ukrainian emblem the Trident in CK3?
1.jpg
 
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Karlington

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We are trying to push a more meaningful Update 1.5.1 with a lot of fixes & improvements; Thus, the delay in releasing it.
I hope that you will be happy with the next build! Thanks for your patience :)
Thank you for your reply, @PDX-Nicou. :)

Are you open to feedback? In that case, I'd like to suggest that this is was an unwise decision. A lot of people have gone and been annoyed by having to wait for so long to see quite game-impacting bugs fixed, when they know from seeing modders fix them in minutes that they could have been fixed a long time ago. Perhaps some issues that need fixing require more work - in that case, it might have been a wise idea to release a fix for the quick ones first, and for the more complicated ones later?

(This is not a complaint against you. You are one of the Paradox employees I have never seen reason to complain about. Every time you engage with people here I've found you to have a positive, friendly, and polite attitude, for which I am grateful. :) )




I have read it's common for people to not give deadlines they're uncertain or not confident of hitting.

Usually better to not give one compared to giving a "Yeah we'll have it fixed by X date", then something unexpected happens (New fix ends up breaking something else) and the fix takes longer than expected.

People feel lied to, as you said, because they were told it'd be done by X date, and get upset when that date passes and the fix isn't out yet. (Even though it might be something that was discovered mid-way through to be hard to fix.)

On the subject of council events, from what I have read, while modders HAVE fixed the problem, the fix was a bit of a workaround. There's some new system that triggers certain actions including council events, and this new script or whatever is broken and not working right. The modders have, IIRC, fixed it by making it use the old system again. It's a workaround, and what really needs to be done is fixing the new script.

I'm getting a little impatient myself, but I imagine it's usually better for one big bugfix update which fixes most of the issues instead of like 8 smaller updates fixing only 1 or 2 issues at a time. (And some of the fixes end up breaking other stuff until the next mini-update)

I just think some of the issues could use a hotfix though as they're somewhat major.
People also get annoyed by radio silence and vague statements. It would be pretty unusual for a company to say "We'll never promise any dates, because someone might get upset if we can't deliver on time."

We also know that that isn't really Paradox's policy. They give dates and deadlines all the time. The release date for CK3 was announced ages ahead, for example.

As for the "workaround" - the modders restored it to the way it was before, when it worked just fine. If it's "a bit of a workaround" to set it up the way it has been for the entire history of the game until three weeks ago, and which works perfectly, then I guess we can call it a workaround. :)
 
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ZippoBR

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Hey Karlington, I don't know if I agree with you regarding quick fixes instead of one big fix. Let's suppose those quick fixes would break the current saves, and we could have, maybe, weekly minor patches to fix that. That would be a pain in the ashes. IMO, I prefer one big patch in 20-30 days than 3 or 4 in the mean time. Just a POV.

About the radio silence, I agree. We could have a report about the fixes that they want to implement.
 
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Karlington

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Hey Karlington, I don't know if I agree with you regarding quick fixes instead of one big fix. Let's suppose those quick fixes would break the current saves, and we could have, maybe, weekly minor patches to fix that. That would be a pain in the ashes. IMO, I prefer one big patch in 20-30 days than 3 or 4 in the mean time. Just a POV.

About the radio silence, I agree. We could have a report about the fixes that they want to implement.
Fair enough. I was thinking mainly about the councilor events issue, which could have been fixed without breaking saves.

Save-breaking fixes should wait for the hypothetical more "complicated" fix even if they themselves are simple to fix, I agree with that. :)
 
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G.Strategos

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Hey Karlington, I don't know if I agree with you regarding quick fixes instead of one big fix. Let's suppose those quick fixes would break the current saves, and we could have, maybe, weekly minor patches to fix that. That would be a pain in the ashes. IMO, I prefer one big patch in 20-30 days than 3 or 4 in the mean time. Just a POV.

About the radio silence, I agree. We could have a report about the fixes that they want to implement.
Well, bigger patches could create far more issues that quick fixes and that's a fact for every game developer not only PI.
Let's say they'll release a 10 (most serious small bugs) quick-fix, the possibility of breaking your game is far less than a 100 fixes patch. Also big patches usually break your saves, smaller ones usually not.

There's another very important parameter as well, game-breaking bugs like forever stacked guests (cripples both player but especially AI) broken blackmail (can't use any intrigue related ability after a failed attempt), broken factions, broken councilors) etc are currently preventing many of us from even starting a game.

So it's a lose lose situation for us, my friend. More stable quick fixes or even beta fixes (for brave enough users) with lots of community feedback are always a wiser and user-friendly strategy IMO. Especially for us with limited play time. I'm waiting for months after the first DLC's delay and now I'll have to wait for even more.
Can't see any positive side here, honestly.
 
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Draky

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We are trying to push a more meaningful Update 1.5.1 with a lot of fixes & improvements; Thus, the delay in releasing it.
I hope that you will be happy with the next build! Thanks for your patience :)
Yikes. How hard can it be to push an update fixing the most glaring and gamebreaking issues first and then deal with the smaller or less important bugs later?
 
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Karlington

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But I don't want to be right, honestly.
I agree with you. Keeping a weekly report would be great and won't take more than 10min to write it and wouldn't harm the repair working process. Anyway, they know what they're doing. Patience is a virtue, isn't it?
Patience is a virtue, but so is diligence, so... ;)
 
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