CK3 Dev Diary #58 - Stre(ss)tching the traits

[Blackdrop]

I like the concept of Forgiving characters "forgiving" someone, but I don't really like hooks being the thing you forgive. Since some of the hooks aren't for bad things the character would seems less forgiving and more like a passive-aggressive tool ("Child, I've decided to look past the fact that you were born while I was dynasty head. Go in peace."). If that was the intent, then alright, but would it have been possible to forgive Imprisonment or Title Revocation reasons instead?

 

[G0dwinson]

Thanks for your update and welcome.

These changes sound promising. I already really like the traits and stress system, a lot.

However I'd love to see traits grouped into personality themes and made a bit more rational. Often characters will have completely contradictory traits which can be amusing but make no psychological sense. Choosing "good" spouses or guardians becomes challenging.

I get there is a fun element trying to minimising undesirable traits (or maximising them if you prefer), and that real people are contradictory - but it often feels too random. It would be more satisfying if it was more consistent.

Also the new grief mechanics tied to stress when loved characters die are excellent. I think you can go further and add "mourning" and funeral event options.

You could also add "gloating" and "gleeful" event options when a hated character (rival, enemy) etc dies. Not to mention grudges and vengeance/vendettas (I know there is some of this already but I'd love to see it extended).

 

[b333]

I like the concept of Forgiving characters "forgiving" someone, but I don't really like hooks being the thing you forgive. Since some of the hooks aren't for bad things the character would seems less forgiving and more like a passive-aggressive tool ("Child, I've decided to look past the fact that you were born while I was dynasty head. Go in peace."). If that was the intent, then alright, but would it have been possible to forgive Imprisonment or Title Revocation reasons instead?

You can already pardon crimes though, as any character.

 

[TheDungen]

One of the notable changes is for Shy: it will no longer generate Stress when launching a Personal Scheme. Shy characters can still receive Stress via some of the scheme event options however, and they will be less efficient at performing personal schemes (it will take them longer), but they will be able to do it without ending up having a mental breakdown.

That's nice, how about fixing cowardly too because that generates a ton of stress.

Also maybe give unlanded characters a boost to handling their stress. The AI is crap at handling stress and often enough your heir has two or three stress traits by the time you get to play him.

 

[Glorblach]

CK3 Dev Diary #58 - Stre(ss)tching the traits​

Wordplay in the title... I can only assume that PDX now hires the middle-aged

Congrats and welcome @Pdx_Meedoc , you enter the fray with an excellent bang here. It is always a big plus (for me, at least) with more trait/rpg interaction, makes that third ruler stand out and be memorable (Shy! My Grandson is shy! ARGH!!!)

 

[robbiow]

I am thoroughly enjoying the game, fantastic balance of strategy and RPG.

Couple of potential concerns with the events. FIrst, there are already lots, and second, some are repetititve, esp at emperor level eg all the hook discoveries. It's actually not too hectic just now, but i hope with the introduction of more variety, there's also some kind of check/filter that is keeping things sane.

Some ideas around these events, hope these are helpful -
- invoke more historical flavours e.g. your butler, the king's almoner, etc with context about what they do
- also reference artifacts relevant to local history eg Magna Carta, Vladimir's zlatnik coins etc or maybe more common items
- involve the religions more, eg street preachers, mystics, monks, cardinals?
- mix in more combinations of outcomes for each choice - eg impact to opinion, dread, lifestyle points, claims on territories, health effects
- more outcomes should provide opportunity to add/remove traits (at a price of course)
- events that are triggered by and allow you to respond to previous events, especially fornication/deviancy, don't have any recourse for your character as they are some other character's vassal (even though it might be your sister involved)

Examples -
(1) While walking in <local town> one day you come across <woman recently accused of fornication>, who clearly has heavy bruises to the side of her face. Upon questioning, she eventually reveals <brother / husband / neighbour > used a <kitchenware item> to punish her for embarassing the family/town/etc.
Response options could be -
Brave > challenge assailant to duel
Just > call for witnesses / arrest >> potentially leads to followup trial event?
Callous / Arbitrary / Fickle > a random retort or gift

(2) You bump into <titled lord who was caught in adultery / deviancy> on the way to chapel/temple for prayers. Despite his recent shame, he has the audacity to boast his latest exploits, and asks about the proclivities <your daughter/sister whatever>....
Vengeful / Just > "Feel the back of my hand ..."
Sadistic / Lustful >>> fill in the blanks
Brave/Zealous >> "I think you need to speak with the priest" >> fine, imprisonment

Last - can we get some new sound effects for events? After 500+ hours, that ominous crash (even for the children's snowball fight) is a bit repetitive.

 

[Frigabus]

Although this only has a graphical effect, it would be good if Lunatic and Possessed characters' traits were reflected in their appearance as well. Like unkempt hair, torn or ridiculous clothing, wearing the other gender’s clothes, that’s what I mean. Or a special animation for them.

 

[Karlington]

dilligent dude gets stressed for doing dilligent things?

He is pulling an all-nighter, or likely more than one, to do so.

Indeed. Overwork is very hazardous when taken too far. It can even kill you, and in Japan it's happened often enough that it's gotten its own word.

 

[Hurin Papa of Turin]

This looks amazing! Somewhat unrelated, but one thing I'm really waiting for before jumping back into the game is the implementation of more opportunities for use of prowess on the part of the player. I would love if the player could be a knight in his own armies, and for more interesting interactions during the battles. Event chains could include the opposing army trying to lead you and some of your knights into a trap, where you'd be temporarily threatened by a more numerous number of foes. You could also try to arrange such traps for the opposing force.

Another area where I loved prowess contests in CK3 was in the societies, I imagine that will probably come with a future DLC but I'm truly looking forward to more opportunities along this line as well. One challenging part for me with the game as is is that at times I feel directionless - where I feel like I'm just waiting for the cooldown on a peace treaty or a scheme of some sort. If there were opportunities for minigames of sorts in the societies and maybe with tourneys and the like, you could feel like you were doing something interesting with the time between then and the next big event for your character.

 

[CorneliusBottomly]

The first expansion is definitely not coming out alongside 1.4.

It must be coming out before then, hype!

 

[Voy]

It must be coming out before then, hype!

Oh, that's chaotic.

 

[Ostermex]

I hope stress become at least a slightly harder thing to manage, as I've never gotten anything above the first level of stress, unless I specifically wanted to.

Also, please, I am begging you, implement some sort of system where traits can be changed/gained/lost.

Because I (and I bet a lot of other people) am getting *a little* tired of seeing my 66 year old ruler have the same traits he did when he was 16.

I actually have a mod idea for both of these, stress and trait changes, but since I never modded anything in my life, the work would have to be done by someone else.

I would implement a decision named "Work on your personality" (or something like that), that would have a long cooldown (15~30 years, subject to change), so that it could not be abused, that would allow you to choose to either change a personality trait into a random one, or change it into its opposite.

You would then get between 2 and 4 flavor events if you want to change it into a random personality trait (because you could get something you don't want), and between 3 and 5 events if you want its opposite (because working against yourself is harder). (Number of events is subject to change, of course) .

These events would have two choices, one would be to essentially fail the event and move on to the next one, *possibly* giving the player short term benefits, like maybe money, prestige, piety, renown, or maybe a positive modifier (something like Book writing/Stargazing events in CK2), and the other would be to pass it but accept some stress.

The kick is, that you have to pass half or more of the events you are given to change your trait. So, if you want to change a trait into a random one, and you get 2 events, you need to pass only 1, but if you get 3 events, you have to pass 2, and so on. (This too, is subject to change)

The player would never know how many events they would get when changing traits, of course, so they would always have to guess how many they need to pass, or rather, how much stress they have to accept to get their result.

Choosing to fail all events would have a % chance of getting Lazy, in addition to keeping their original trait. If they are changing Lazy, this obviously wouldn't happen. The % could possibly scale off of how many flavor events they got, the more they got, the bigger the chance, or it could just be a straight %.

Another idea for failing all events is to simply give the player a negative modifier or take money, piety, prestige, whatever.

All of this, of course, is just something I came up with quickly, and didn't work out much. But essentially, it would kill two game 'issues' with one mod: Redundancy of Stress and Never-changing Traits




I freely give my idea to anyone who wants to make it, you don't have to credit me if you don't want to, I really just want to see something like this be made, and I wish I could do it myself.

 

[bsmithers333]

Just wanted to say this dev diary is really exciting! I love the idea of special decisions/interactions that further link personality traits to core game mechanics.

Here’s a wish list for ‘Vengeful’ characters:

Antagonize: I really miss this mechanic from CK2! Essentially, the antagonize scheme is the opposite of the befriend scheme. If the scheme is successful, the target becomes your rival; if they are already your rival, they become your nemesis. I think this would give player more control over how rivalries develop. It also pairs nicely with the 'Vengeful' trait which grants a bonus to hostile schemes against said rivals.

Rivalry war CB: Another mechanic from CK2. The winner imprisons their rival and/or their close family members.

Blood feud (decision): I love the House/Dynasty mechanics in this game, so how about a decision that lets you escalate a rivalry into a full-blown feud between houses? When the blood feud is called, members of the warring houses lose opinion of each other for 10 years and the prerequisites for dueling are waived when targeting a character in a rival house. This can (and should) be a double-edged sword as the rival house will likely kill a few of your family members...

 

[r3xm0rt1s]

the prerequisites for dueling are waived when targeting a character in a rival house

Does this waive their ability to refuse? Nobody ever wants to duel my 50+ prowess characters for some reason.

 

[Arkangelus]

I actually have a mod idea for both of these, stress and trait changes, but since I never modded anything in my life, the work would have to be done by someone else.

I would implement a decision named "Work on your personality" (or something like that), that would have a long cooldown (15~30 years, subject to change), so that it could not be abused, that would allow you to choose to either change a personality trait into a random one, or change it into its opposite.

You would then get between 2 and 4 flavor events if you want to change it into a random personality trait (because you could get something you don't want), and between 3 and 5 events if you want its opposite (because working against yourself is harder). (Number of events is subject to change, of course) .

These events would have two choices, one would be to essentially fail the event and move on to the next one, *possibly* giving the player short term benefits, like maybe money, prestige, piety, renown, or maybe a positive modifier (something like Book writing/Stargazing events in CK2), and the other would be to pass it but accept some stress.

The kick is, that you have to pass half or more of the events you are given to change your trait. So, if you want to change a trait into a random one, and you get 2 events, you need to pass only 1, but if you get 3 events, you have to pass 2, and so on. (This too, is subject to change)

The player would never know how many events they would get when changing traits, of course, so they would always have to guess how many they need to pass, or rather, how much stress they have to accept to get their result.

Choosing to fail all events would have a % chance of getting Lazy, in addition to keeping their original trait. If they are changing Lazy, this obviously wouldn't happen. The % could possibly scale off of how many flavor events they got, the more they got, the bigger the chance, or it could just be a straight %.

Another idea for failing all events is to simply give the player a negative modifier or take money, piety, prestige, whatever.

All of this, of course, is just something I came up with quickly, and didn't work out much. But essentially, it would kill two game 'issues' with one mod: Redundancy of Stress and Never-changing Traits




I freely give my idea to anyone who wants to make it, you don't have to credit me if you don't want to, I really just want to see something like this be made, and I wish I could do it myself.

Something very similar to this exists in game already for religions who can meditate!

 

[Haze88]

Posted in discord too but I'll drop it here as well, since we are doing trait based things now ambitious characters should have goals based on education and easier times doing them at an expense to others i.e a military ambitious character has the ability to declare wars while indebted to a higher malus to opinion and army or a steward character has to get a certain treasury/dev number but to a lot of personal stress if they fail. Zealots should be able to do some sort of sermons as a decision as an attempt to convert a random vassal or character not of your faith in your realm, or bring in a better priest. Depending on the direction that you go here the traits themselves should also be able combo in such a way that your Just and Brave characters become the stuff of legends and Lustful and Stubborn characters become...well something else.

 

[Ostermex]

Something very similar to this exists in game already for religions who can meditate!

Ah, yeah, you're right. I almost forgot about that.
But, I wouldn't exactly call it "very similar", due to the method not reliably leading to trait changes at all, and actively being there as a tool for losing stress

 

[MatthewP]

I like the ideas here, sounds like a cool way to differentiate the traits. This might be unpopular, but I really wish there were more negative events tied to traits. Specifically, events which interact with game systems. So a coward might get really scared in the middle of a tough war and want to surrender, a wrathful person might get really mad at a vassal or whoever and want to start a fight (which could lead to a rivalry), an ambitious person might get really antsy to expand their domain, etc. currently most of the effects of traits are restrictions on player actions, this is part of why stress is rarely an issue.

If the player was prodded a bit more by their traits they could be a major driver of difficulty, which would be cool and fit better with what the game wants to be. Currently the main drivers of difficulty are war and partition, neither of which is affected much by what is ostensibly the centerpiece of the game, personality. I think that’s why folks get upset with partition so much TBH. It’s not that it’s inherently bad, it’s just frustrating that the main driver of difficulty in the game is something that is basically unrelated to the most engaging and well-developed part of the game.

 

[SarenArterius]

please fix the Unify Burgundy decision

it's impossible to do because the kingdom is created automaticaly with confederate partition after death of Charles le chauve/Lothaire II/Louis le jeune and the decision desappear.

 

[Voy]

please fix the Unify Burgundy decision

it's impossible to do because the kingdom is created automaticaly with confederate partition after death of Charles le chauve/Lothaire II/Louis le jeune and the decision desappear.

Make a detailed bug report