CK3 Dev Diary #34 - It’s all about appearances

CK3 Dev Diary #34 - It’s all about appearances

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Olden Weiss

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Did you change their dna? (BTW, my money is on the rightmost being William, he's the only beardless Norman) They looked different in the Beta
Seems they may have! My guess, left to right, by the way:
Harald Hardrade (he was quite old by this time, wasn't he?), Harold of England, Svend of Denmark, Malcolm of Scotland, William the Bastard.
 

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So when this new character gets to make its own babies they will have a chance of inheriting a gene from their grandparents, even though that gene might not have been visible on their parent.
Looks really great.
I'm in general more of a game mechanics-guy, so I have to ask: does this system also work for passing on character traits or is it exclusive for appearances?
 
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Remember when this was announced & people were heavily critical of the 3d portraits, even though they were beta. Well, I think we can say that they look great now & most of the complaints are in the past.
 
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Olden Weiss

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All those portraits look awesome.

As far as inheritance goes, while this is awesome, since most things are on a slider, I wouldn't mind seeing something that is less binary. Maybe they aren't, dunno. Yes, skin color (maybe hair as well) may be the most glaring example of how this could work in a less either/or way.

But, for instance, a slight slide from one end of the scale to the other, the stronger the greatest the difference is.

In any case, awesome stuff already, I can't wait.
The way I understand it, they're not binary. I believe the way it will work is similar to Imperator, wherein every trait had a slider. So for instance, in the rightmost inheritance example, you see how the mother has defined eyelids? That would be a portion of the DNA, and her children might inherit varying degrees of that specific gene. I believe that's how it works.


Looks really great.
I'm in general more of a game mechanics-guy, so I have to ask: does this system also work for passing on character traits or is it exclusive for appearances?
I believe some traits will be hereditary - such as Attractive, Ugly, Dwarfism, and Gigantism - but I don't know if things like personality traits are passed on.
 
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All those portraits look awesome.

As far as inheritance goes, while this is awesome, since most things are on a slider, I wouldn't mind seeing something that is less binary. Maybe they aren't, dunno. Yes, skin color (maybe hair as well) may be the most glaring example of how this could work in a less either/or way.

But, for instance, a slight slide from one end of the scale to the other, the stronger the greatest the difference is.

In any case, awesome stuff already, I can't wait.
There's the possibility that a particular DNA point might affect more than one thing, so just a slider might not have exactly the effect that was asked for.
Skin colour also has a wide range if you look at the ethnicity examples - it's hardly a binary situation there.
 

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So, since you mentioned modding appearances, does this confirm no official ruler designer? If so, would a similar feature actually be moddable? Or would you need to individually edit text files to get a "custom" ruler?
 
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kobreti77

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So, since you mentioned modding appearances, does this confirm no official ruler designer? If so, would a similar feature actually be moddable? Or would you need to individually edit text files to get a "custom" ruler?
Or change the values in the console .. a lot of trial and error then boom ... custom ruler ...
 
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do genetic diseases like down and proteus syndromes are in ?
 
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My one requested improvement is for the clothing to reflect injuries and diseases in some way. Something as simple as a few outfits for injured characters that include bandages and bloodstains would help a lot in avoiding the issue of the injuries and diseases abruptly stopping below the neck.

EDIT: Is an entire feature determined by only one set of genes? Is there allowed to be a little mixing, so say a nose can be partially based on one parent and partially based on the other? With the genetics system it should be fairly easy to do that, but I'm not sure how good it would look.
 
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Sonmi

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Can honestly say I'm baffled by the quality and diversity of those models.

Amazing job guys.
 
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Have you handled facial symmetry? The large majority of these characters look like actors in a historical movie, having become actors for looking better than average. Which is obviously what you aimed for. I hope that our regular unsymmetrical faces are not reserved for the people with the ugly trait.
 
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Olden Weiss

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So, since you mentioned modding appearances, does this confirm no official ruler designer? If so, would a similar feature actually be moddable? Or would you need to individually edit text files to get a "custom" ruler?
The way it worked in Imperator was a mix of both, but granted, I've heard that was a different branch of the dev team. I can't say how similar CK3 will be. In Imperator, though, there was an editor you could access via console commands which used sliders to shape the character, then gave you a DNA string to copy to keyboard. You'd then have to modify the details of an existing character and paste that DNA string over theirs.


Have you handled facial symmetry? The large majority of these characters look like actors in a historical movie, having become actors for looking better than average. Which is obviously what you aimed for. I hope that our regular unsymmetrical faces are not reserved for the people with the ugly trait.

From Dev Diary 7:

Genetic traits will often have a visual effect on your portrait - the Beautiful line of traits will make your characters more-and-more symmetrical, for example. On the negative end of the spectrum, we have traits such as Ugly or Albino, which will reduce symmetry or alter your character's skin tone respectively (the Middle Ages were full of prejudice).
So it sounds as though regular characters should be somewhere around the middle, ideally.

Edit: In fact, look closer and you'll find it's quite that way.
1595354183706.png

1595354836357.png

1595355017241.png


(The last one is TERRIBLE because I forgot to draw on a separate layer, but I hope it gets the point across.)



My one requested improvement is for the clothing to reflect injuries and diseases in some way. Something as simple as a few outfits for injured characters that include bandages and bloodstains would help a lot in avoiding the issue of the injuries and diseases abruptly stopping below the neck.

EDIT: Is an entire feature determined by only one set of genes? Is there allowed to be a little mixing, so say a nose can be partially based on one parent and partially based on the other? With the genetics system it should be fairly easy to do that, but I'm not sure how good it would look.
I believe it's a combination.
1595352678095.png


1595353008047.png


I believe the way it works is that each section of an facial feature has its own "gene", and each of those genes is inherited separately. So a child can inherit his father's nose tip shape, his mother's nose ridge shape, his father's nose ridge definition, his mother's nose length, and so on.
 

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do genetic diseases like down and proteus syndromes are in ?
I think faculty-affecting genetic conditions like Down's are represented through the "Imbecile" trait. It's far from perfect, but more or less fits the common understanding of those syndromes at the time. I don't think it'll effect portraits at all.
 
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I cant wait to play CK3!! I do have a question however (or a suggestion). Will genetics be used to more accuratley depict genetic disorders? While I would talk about Haemophilia (the "royal disease"), the genetic traits I have the most complaints about take precedent because I really dont want to see them in CK3 if possible.

"slow" and "imbecile". There are a lot of problems with slow and imbecile. Mainly, you could do so much more with genetic mental disorders, its such a great opportunity to flesh out characthers. Secondly, it could be argued its kindof offensive to funnel all mental genetic disorders into "stupid" and "even more stupid".

Apparently, googling "slow mental disorder" gives results for ADHD (attention deficit). The main one I know though is ASD, Autism Spectrum Disorder, which is what I suspect people would assume "slow" means. Which, either-or, is a disgusting oversimplification of the effects of the disease to just give a flat penalty to everything. Even if you argue its just a representation of a general aptitude (person is just genetically smarter or dumber then average), the fact there is nothing to signify the existance of a mental disorder means I kindof have to assume thats what your using to represent them. At the same time, I understand you cant simulate all the genetic diseases known to man, but if you can make room for harelip and clubfooted, you better have at least some of the better known genetic disorders.

Not to mention these would be much more interesting for the player, if instead of some flat stat debuffs, you would get a more complex thing that affect how you would gain stats & expirience, and also events on how you deal with the disorder and how others perceive it.
 
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In other words; if you’re into noses, or any other facial feature, this is the game for you.
Hmm. I guess I need to do a better job of deleting my internet history...
 
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View attachment 601700
Historical characters from the “Fate of England” in the 1066 start date. Guess who is who!

Let's see:
- Middle guy is a duke, the rest are kings.
- Birth years, approximate according to wiki: Hardrada - 1015, Estridsen - 1019, Godwinsson - 1022, William - 1028, Malcolm - 1033.
- Godwinsson is usually depicted with a mustache.
- Guy number four looks quite a bit younger than numbers 1 & 5.
- Wikipedia says Estridssen was tall and powerfully build.

Conclusion:
1. Harald Hardrada
2. Harold Godwinsson
3. William the Bastard (since he's not the conqueror at this point)
4. Malcolm III Canmore
5. Svend II Estridssen
 
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This all looks really excellent. One question, though -- to what extent will the aspects of physical appearance be modelled on real-life recessiveness/dominance of associated genes? To touch on what I mean, I noticed that one of the sample images for "Inheritance in action" featured a dark-haired Altaic/Central Asian man with a blonde-haired European wife, and two of their children also had blond hair. This isn't impossible genetically, depending on the man's ancestry (the Eurasian steppe was/is a pretty diverse place, after all) and other factors, but blond hair especially is notorious for being a recessive trait that doesn't express itself in first-generation mixes between different racial backgrounds. Please pardon me if this is an unfounded observation, given that I'm commenting based on only one shown image without any additional context like the Altaic man's own parentage and grandparents, but it does give the impression that blond hair and potentially other traits will be treated like a 50/50 in terms of inheritance.

I have no complaints if this is the case and it ends up with Sims-esque outcomes for kids, but it would be interesting to know to what extent these traits actually will be following recessive/dominant tendencies of inheritance.
 
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