CK3 Dev Diary #34 - It’s all about appearances

CK3 Dev Diary #34 - It’s all about appearances

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Svennie 135

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1596641240006.png

This is how the first dev diary of CK II showed their portraits. It seems very familliar with the ones they thought of using now.

Good thing they changed to the gorgeous models we have now

CK II dev diary #1
 
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Moving away from cartoony models was the bst desition.
 
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DàbiànLājīdàrén

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I'm glad PDX decided to make human models aside from white people this time.
 
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Sluban

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Please, make correct inheriatance of dominant and recesive traits. From what I read, in CK3 recesive traits like light hair are inheirted randomly when mixed with dominant traits like dark hair. Its shouldnt have place in historical game. There is nothing hard with making everyone have two genes (one from each parents) but only dominant showing. Whats point of inheritance form grandparents if we dont have it? Even in as old games like Sims 2 it was almost comleptly correct (darker colors were dominant but for some reason red was random when paired with blonde and brown with black). I think later Sims games make all colors random (each color have 50% chance). Also I hope dark colors will not be inherited from parents with light hair (only light hair should be recessive and as such inheritable form parents who have dark hair but light hair in ancestry). I made example from hair but its the same for eyes and of course skin should be codominant (color form betwen both parents colors). Even some other traits like some facial features and hair type are inherited recesive or doninant and not codominant. Its very important for me as I always was interested in genetic and inheritance and I dont want to see blondes and redhads everywhere they should be rare as in real world especaily for mixed race people. For example Mongol without known ancestry shouldn't have redhaired child with some Irish. Seriously what is reason with this fake inheritance when you can make it correct easily? Please, dont teach people incorrect inheritance.
 
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Riamus

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True DNA would be entirely out of possibility in their engine as they have stated. What we have is something that provides a good variety, including sometimes getting traits from grandparents, and I think it will work fine. No one ever said it was entirely realistic. Without using the entire DNA strand (correctly), it would be difficult to make any system you design work well because one way or another you have to make sacrifices and do things differently to get your results. In this case, they chose the dominant and recessive option. I'm sure this will be far more "realistic" than The Sims as there are probably a greater number of "DNA" that are being used in this game. The results may not be the same and in certain cases may be less realistic, but I don't have a problem with that.
 
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Sluban

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From what I read the problem is that they don't use recesive and dominant traits at all. All traits are radom and have the same 50% chance. I quoted the Sims 2 because there were recesive and dominant traits in comparision to later sims where everything was random. So we would get half children from pure Mongol and Irish as redheads when there should be only children with black hair. Its little better than CK2 random portrait as some facial features will be randomized, but still it would make game extremaly unrealisitic as we would get unusualy high number of recesisvie features especialy for mixed race children.
 

ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal

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From what I read the problem is that they don't use recesive and dominant traits at all. All traits are radom and have the same 50% chance. I quoted the Sims 2 because there were recesive and dominant traits in comparision to later sims where everything was random. So we would get half children from pure Mongol and Irish as redheads when there should be only children with black hair. Its little better than CK2 random portrait as some facial features will be randomized, but still it would make game extremaly unrealisitic as we would get unusualy high number of recesisvie features especialy for mixed race children.
That is sacrificing variety for realism and I respectfully disagree. Your system will be complicated since they will need to know which gene to be dominant and which to be recessive, for all of them, some of which are just a value like nose width. If you're saying just some traits should be set up like that, then we run into a slippery slope of which one should we apply this special rulen for.
Under your system, after a couple of generations every character will look the same. Only 25% of the first generation will have the recessive phenotype and that's only if they marry into the same ethnicity. It's not good for variety. Realistic, yes, but unfun, and that's more important in a game. Maybe EA saw that and that's why they changed it.
 
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Sluban

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Thats pretty easy, recesive and dominant traits are well known so they can check what to make dominant and recesive and what to make codominant with sliders. Also variety will not dissapear. We still have variety in real world so dont worry about variety we would only lost all recesive traits if everyone who carry them (even hidden) would die. So even when Mongols conqer all world and random courtiers from other ethincies stop showing there would still be recesive traits from characters married into Mongol dynasties. It will be extremaly satisfying and more fun than some randomnes for artifical variety. Historically Nogai Khan married Byzantine princess and his daughter married Rus prince. It will be nice to see how they children would really look like. And it would not make everyone look the same after couple of generations at last no more than it historically did.
 
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TheDarkMaster

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Since cells do recombination, swapping things back and forth between the two DNA strands when making gametes, there's no need to simulate full DNA strands. They've mostly got a working system for tracking traits and DNA, it's more a matter of working out what the rules should be and letting characteristics of traits be passed down. Like rather than one trait being selected as 'dominant' the trait itself has some dominance ranking. If a trait has a higher dominance ranking than the other, it appears. If both traits have the same dominance ranking, they both appear as a mix.

Some traits should also have multiple DNA trait entries, like skin tone.
 

DàbiànLājīdàrén

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From what I read the problem is that they don't use recesive and dominant traits at all. All traits are radom and have the same 50% chance. I quoted the Sims 2 because there were recesive and dominant traits in comparision to later sims where everything was random. So we would get half children from pure Mongol and Irish as redheads when there should be only children with black hair. Its little better than CK2 random portrait as some facial features will be randomized, but still it would make game extremaly unrealisitic as we would get unusualy high number of recesisvie features especialy for mixed race children.
But Mongols do have red hair and sometimes bluish grey eyes.



 
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Sluban

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Rare cases exist but have reason for it. If some Mongol parents both have ancestors from for example Tocharians its possible but extremaly rare and not common at all.
 
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DàbiànLājīdàrén

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Rare cases exist but have reason for it. If some Mongol parents both have ancestors from for example Tocharians its possible but extremaly rare and not common at all.
The point is that recessive genes do display themselves sometimes.
 

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There is an example of a "beautiful" person here, a 30 year old barmaid. The red rose is the beautiful trait:

 
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grnbrndd

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There is an example of a "beautiful" person here, a 30 year old barmaid. The red rose is the beautiful trait:

I have to say, the characters have been looking better and better, and this stream is no exception. I even really liked the small bits of animation, which looked particularly good in a few instances.
The “T-Pose” was also pretty funny.
 
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ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal

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Thats pretty easy, recesive and dominant traits are well known so they can check what to make dominant and recesive and what to make codominant with sliders. Also variety will not dissapear. We still have variety in real world so dont worry about variety we would only lost all recesive traits if everyone who carry them (even hidden) would die. So even when Mongols conqer all world and random courtiers from other ethincies stop showing there would still be recesive traits from characters married into Mongol dynasties. It will be extremaly satisfying and more fun than some randomnes for artifical variety. Historically Nogai Khan married Byzantine princess and his daughter married Rus prince. It will be nice to see how they children would really look like. And it would not make everyone look the same after couple of generations at last no more than it historically did.
I tried to search for dominant and recessive physical traits and didn't see anything. :(

I don't think you can find such a list online? If you can show me one I'll be very grateful.

Aside from the research needed, I think having co-dominant is too complex and the devs would want to lower the calculations needed for each baby born. Instead of "one gene-one characteristics" which you only need something like a simple table for, now you gotta worry about all these different special rules that will really complicate the coding, which introduce bugs and affect performance. Most importantly, their current system works, may not be entirely accurate, but it's a step up from the past, and easier to maintain, and cost less computations. That's probably why they choose it.
 
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Svennie 135

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Due to the fact that all characters use the same base model, we can easily create blends between multiple DNAs. Each character stores two sets of genes that we call dominant and recessive, respectively. (Disclaimer: Please note that the dominant and recessive genes in our system do not work exactly like in real life. We’re still dealing with an approximation of genetics. We haven’t fully replicated real world genetics. Yet.) When a baby is born it will inherit two versions of each gene - both of which will come randomly from either parent. As mentioned one of these genes will end up being dominant and the other one recessive based on a chance value (dominant genes from the parents have a higher chance of being inherited as dominant genes for the baby). The appearance of the newborn character is decided entirely by its dominant gene set. But the recessive genes are still there as a representation of genes carried down the generations. So when this new character gets to make its own babies they will have a chance of inheriting a gene from their grandparents, even though that gene might not have been visible on their parent.

It says here that there will be dominant and recessive genes!
 
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ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal

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Due to the fact that all characters use the same base model, we can easily create blends between multiple DNAs. Each character stores two sets of genes that we call dominant and recessive, respectively. (Disclaimer: Please note that the dominant and recessive genes in our system do not work exactly like in real life. We’re still dealing with an approximation of genetics. We haven’t fully replicated real world genetics. Yet.) When a baby is born it will inherit two versions of each gene - both of which will come randomly from either parent. As mentioned one of these genes will end up being dominant and the other one recessive based on a chance value (dominant genes from the parents have a higher chance of being inherited as dominant genes for the baby). The appearance of the newborn character is decided entirely by its dominant gene set. But the recessive genes are still there as a representation of genes carried down the generations. So when this new character gets to make its own babies they will have a chance of inheriting a gene from their grandparents, even though that gene might not have been visible on their parent.

It says here that there will be dominant and recessive genes!
We all know that. His problem is that the recessive/dominant gene is chosen at random instead of remain consistently dominant or recessive between parents and child.
 

Svennie 135

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ah you mean that in one generation it is dominant and in the next generation the same gene is recessive?