CK3 Dev Diary #33 - An Offer You Can’t Refuse

[PK_AZ]

Looks good. Really, really good.

 

[Tuo]

How do hooks work on players in MP though? Does it auto-accept the deal for them?

Hooks cannot be refused, no matter who is the target or the puller. In this context, it just means that the vassal can make one extra favorable change, or the liege can make one more change without tyranny.

It doesn't autoaccept, but if you do not do what the hook tells you to do that you will receive a general negative opinion from everyone that is relative to the strength of the hook they have upon you. A fabricated lie is of course going to be a lot less harmful than the revelation that you have been pounding your sister and the heir to the Kingdom everyone thought was from your wife is actually the inbred spawn of Satan.

You're thinking of Blackmail - Blackmail can be refused, but if you don't refuse it, the blackmailer gets a hook, and when that hook is used, at that time, you no longer have the option to refuse.

 

[CombatWalrus]

Will there be an option to become independent if you have low enough obligations? Say a Duke has zero obligations to his king, so when the king dies the Duke has the option us to drift his ducky away in a peaceful independence?

 

[garbud]

(Red) I hope you guys managed to make the AI smarter with that. I wouldn't want to see a 21-Stewardship and 5-Intrigue vassal forcing his way to become my Spymaster...

(Blue) Well, it seems there WILL be a micro problem as soon as someone starts playing in the HRE in 1066. There are lots of count vassals there! A contract template would indeed be useful here.

(Extra) I have a question: regarding Holy Wars and the likes (supposing they were kept the same from CK2) - will I have to sign a contract with EVERY new Count I put in the new, ruler-less land and a new one when I promote one of them to be a duke or does the game gives you the option to not produce a contract until all is set and done?

all new vassals of any level are given a default middle ground contract that you may then change if you so desire

 

[garbud]

I really like this system, but it also raises all sorts of edge case questions.

One that I haven't seen brought up yet in the thread: let's say I have a vassal with Religious Protection in his contract, and I want to get rid of him. Can I just impose a "fair" modification that gets rid of the Religious Protection in exchange for lower taxes, and then immediately afterwards revoke his title for being the wrong religion? I'm a bit worried that, if this is possible, Religious Protection will be sort of an empty promise.

you can only change a contracl for a vassal once per lifetime so untill either you or the vassal dies you wont be changeing said contact

 

[Princess Stabbity]

We really wanted the interface to make this feel like an actual paper contract being signed between the liege and the vassal, thankfully we had this beautiful parchment background and wax seal shader lying around that helped spice it up.

While it does look pretty and helps immersion a lot, I can't help feeling a bit nervous about scalability when I see lovingly crafted interfaces like this.

So... will it support scrollbars if, for example, a mod decides to add 20 more checkboxes? n_n

 

[WolfAleron]

This looks really interesting. I hope Eu5 will have really interesting vassal system too in the future. Overall Ck3 looks promising. Really anticipating it.

 

[Tuo]

you can only change a contracl for a vassal once per lifetime so untill either you or the vassal dies you wont be changeing said contact

What I'm curious about is if that's a mutual limit - that is, if I as a vassal make fair changes to my vassal contract before my liege has a chance to, does that block the liege from making changes until one of us dies? Or more likely, as long as the changes are zero-sum, can the other party just change them back to maintain status quo?

 

[Mysterypally]

Fantastic! keep it up

 

[Less2]

Love the idea but it looks like it could become tedious in large realms. I don't think it should be required to have blackmail on every count in the Emperor's realm if he wants to institute a single notch higher taxes across all his vassals.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

Love the idea but it looks like it could become tedious in large realms. I don't think it should be required to have blackmail on every count in the Emperor's realm if he wants to institute a single notch higher taxes across all his vassals.

That's when you group all these counts under one vassal duke

 

[Tuo]

Perhaps the special contracts and fine print options should be locked so that they can't be removed by the liege without a hook or tyranny, and likewise, the vassal cannot demand them without a hook? If they can be mutually freely negotiated, it seems like they won't be very binding.

EDIT: For this, of course, the special rights (such as coinage rights) should be separated from special restrictions (such as forced partition), with of course liege-vassal powers reversed for the the restrictions (so that a liege can only demand the restrictions with a hook or tyranny, but a vassal can offer to take that restriction in return for something else).

 

[Less2]

That's when you group all these counts under one vassal duke

Most realms are always going to have lots of counts for which you can't create a duchy since you don't own enough of the de jure land. And transferring vassal counts to be under non-de jure dukes is so icky.

 

[Tuo]

Most realms are always going to have lots of counts for which you can't create a duchy since you don't own enough of the de jure land. And transferring vassal counts to be under non-de jure dukes is so icky.

Well, when you play as a feudal lord, you have to deal with feudal vassals.

 

[Less2]

Well, when you play as a feudal lord, you have to deal with feudal vassals.

At the same time, when a king declared a general tax increase to pay for e.g. a war, he was certainly disliked but a -200 tyranny penalty for having 10 vassals seems a bit much.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

Most realms are always going to have lots of counts for which you can't create a duchy since you don't own enough of the de jure land. And transferring vassal counts to be under non-de jure dukes is so icky.

If you have dozens of count vassals because you can't lump some of them together under a duchy, you know where to expand next

Edit: Also, they're counts. Not dukes or kings. If you are big enough to have a lot of them, it probably doesn't really matter if they have Normal or High taxes

 

[Tuo]

At the same time, when a king declared a general tax increase to pay for e.g. a war, he was certainly disliked but a -200 tyranny penalty for having 10 vassals seems a bit much.

Well, that can be done by taking appropriate lifestyle perks, rather than permanently altering the feudal contracts that bind your vassals for generations. For a large-scale reformation of feudal obligations, a lot of effort is to be expected.

 

[TheMarlowe]

That value is the opinion modifiers directly from the contract options, so the +5 there is coming from the fact he still has low levies which gives a +5. The tyranny is then separate from the contract's obligations but because you gave an unfair one.
Could probably clear up that is not Duke Otto's opinion of you overhaul but the modifier sum from the obligations picked, will note that down.

Maybe the info is present elsewhere, but it should be the overall change in opinion, no?

 

[Ruwaard]

I hope this is not only for the Holy Roman Empire but for all post-Carolingian lands. Matter in fact, in 1066 the French king had less influence in his realm than the emperor in his. HRE in 1066 is not the same as the HRE in 1600

I agree, the difference for the HRE should not be made with standard lower taxes and levies. Instead the difference should be made with more marches (like the Saxon Marches and the Bavarian Marches) and palatines (first the stem dukes and later the Prince-Electors).

 

[crusaderking]

Great DD. I love this mechanic, and I'm really looking forward to a DLC that expands the feudal contract and centers more peacetime political gameplay around this.

Does this contract mechanic apply to Indian realms as well?