CK3 Dev Diary #33 - An Offer You Can’t Refuse

[Jaakvi]

I really love the modding potential of these new vassal contracts. It might be interesting to have an option to force the vassal to send one or more of their children to be educated at the court of their liege. The liege could then give the child a suitable education and use them as a hostage against the vassal.

 

[blackninja9939]

Is is moddable? If a mod adds new government types, can they be set to use the Feudal contracts mechanic?

Yep it is fully moddable, the government definitions have a list of the contract options they have available to them so you can add different contract options there to new or existing governments.

 

[GingerContingent]

I really love the modding potential of these new vassal contracts. It might be interesting to have an option to force the vassal to send one or more of their children to be educated at the court of their liege. The liege could then give the child a suitable education and use them as a hostage against the vassal.

If they end up adding China and Japan, I'm betting that there will definitely be a mechanic like this.

 

[Arcvalons]

Is there an a way for a vassal to change their succession laws without modifying the contract?

In elective realms, are things like elector rights included in the contract?

 

[Spaninq]

They get free use of the demand council position interaction which the liege cannot refuse. Allowing them to pick a council position and get it. Hooks can also be used for that interaction if you do not have the council rights.
Of course this means the council rights position is limited to only as many council positions you have that your vassals can occupy.

Will they at least prioritize demanding positions that they are competent with? I'd be annoyed if my 16 martial, 10 diplomacy, 8 Intrigue vassal demanded that he become my steward despite having a stewardship of only 4.

EDIT: I suppose a priority should also be given to council positions that aren't already occupied by other council-guaranteed vassals

 

[Varus90]

Special Rights: There Can Be Only One - If two vassals guaranteed a spot on the Council desire the same position, they must fight to the death to determine which one it will be.

 

[Xain]

Is there a "fine print" that allows vassal to wage war within the realm? And outside the realm?

If you are a brand new vassal then its default tax and levies and no fine print options.
3. It will be the default as above.

Not a huge fan of that, unlanded characters being granted a title should start with pretty disadvantageous contracts (since, as someone said, if he doesn't agree, you could always ask someone else). But I suppose that from a balance point of view it would be nightmarish, with constantly unsatisfied vassals rising in rebellion.

 

[satkenweste]

How will this mechanic applies to viceroyalties (If they are in the game of course) ?

 

[Heiliges Thüringens Reich]

They get free use of the demand council position interaction which the liege cannot refuse. Allowing them to pick a council position and get it. Hooks can also be used for that interaction if you do not have the council rights.
Of course this means the council rights position is limited to only as many council positions you have that your vassals can occupy.

Currently they are handled individually, which to a degree self mitigates it by virtue of encouraging you to make dukes to control the counts and kings to manage the dukes etc. But it is something we are keeping in mind for the future to see if the management of them becomes to annoying and how we can ease that. I would argue that if we need a copy and paste button then the system has become too micro and that is in itself another issue.

(Red) I hope you guys managed to make the AI smarter with that. I wouldn't want to see a 21-Stewardship and 5-Intrigue vassal forcing his way to become my Spymaster...

(Blue) Well, it seems there WILL be a micro problem as soon as someone starts playing in the HRE in 1066. There are lots of count vassals there! A contract template would indeed be useful here.

(Extra) I have a question: regarding Holy Wars and the likes (supposing they were kept the same from CK2) - will I have to sign a contract with EVERY new Count I put in the new, ruler-less land and a new one when I promote one of them to be a duke or does the game gives you the option to not produce a contract until all is set and done?

 

[Sushurashi]

With the new obligations that can be changed and enacted this allows you to negotiate a more interesting deal. For example, you as the liege may want to increase the amount of taxes your vassal gives you, but just doing that alone will be viewed as unfair by the vassal and increase your tyranny.

View attachment 595184
[a contract proposal giving tyranny]

Poor Duke Otto is being forced to pay higher taxes against his will and wishes, but he still likes his king even more? as seen by the +5 opinion modifier, despite this being an act of tyranny by his liege.

 

[tilly]

this is absolutely stellar stuff, and an excellent change. im really glad you guys listened to us and gave it another go

i want to ask, though: do you know if this system is flexible enough that you can add stuff like multiple vassalage and weird situations where an independent ruler is also technically a vassal in another realm? like, william the conqueror still adhered to his vassal contract in normandy while actively king of england, but only insofar as it concerned normandy. he wasnt entirely subject to the king of france, but he didnt just entirely break away either

im not saying i expect it on release or anything, im just asking you as a professional if this is the kind of thing that would be real hard to implement

 

[Sushurashi]

They get free use of the demand council position interaction which the liege cannot refuse. Allowing them to pick a council position and get it. Hooks can also be used for that interaction if you do not have the council rights.
Of course this means the council rights position is limited to only as many council positions you have that your vassals can occupy.

So with this right do they get to not only demand a seat on the council but also pick which position they want? So if Duke Otto want's to be Marshal he can just up and say, "I want to be Marshal!", and whoever is currently your Marshal gets the boot? What if that person is a powerful vassal do the get the "recently fired" malus and inability to rehire them to a different position cooldown, or will powerful vassals automatically be shifted to a different position on the council not currently occupied by similarly powerful vassal? What if the current Marshal also has the Council privilege and can't be removed from the council by the liege?

 

[InvisibleBison]

(Red) I hope you guys managed to make the AI smarter with that. I wouldn't want to see a 21-Stewardship and 5-Intrigue vassal forcing his way to become my Spymaster...

Given the emphasis on roleplaying in this game, I think it's reasonable that a character would enjoy a job they're not very good at more than one they are good at.

 

[blackninja9939]

Poor Duke Otto is being forced to pay higher taxes against his will and wishes, but he still likes his king even more? as seen by the +5 opinion modifier, despite this being an act of tyranny by his liege.

That value is the opinion modifiers directly from the contract options, so the +5 there is coming from the fact he still has low levies which gives a +5. The tyranny is then separate from the contract's obligations but because you gave an unfair one.
Could probably clear up that is not Duke Otto's opinion of you overhaul but the modifier sum from the obligations picked, will note that down.

 

[wolfgag]

~HEAVY BREATHING~

You will be informed of the change to your contract and deal with it

OK but at least make it so AI doesn't dare alter your contract if you have a hook on him.

 

[Heatth]

Could probably clear up that is not Duke Otto's opinion of you overhaul but the modifier sum from the obligations picked, will note that down.

Maybe note the absolute change? In this case -5 (or -25 if factor tyranny?)

 

[Tuo]

Only Feudal characters use the contract with individual obligations, the Clans have a static contract which scales based on opinion.

Hmmh, this certainly tips the scales of interest towards feudalism over clans for me, unless there are yet undisclosed features to clans that make it as interesting to interact with as Feudalism. Perhaps there will be dev diaries focused on clans and tribes, as well?

 

[Froggie]

What is the difference between:

• Army maintenance -20%
• Men-at-Arms maintenance -20.00%

Also, why does only one have the decimal place?


Also, a more important question - Will a pop-up decision be given to the player when a vassal dies and the Heir(s) take over,or will they inherit the same pre-existing contracts? Is there any difference to this for say, Gavelkind where you gain multiple vassals?

 

[Álvaro Núñez de Lara]

Yep it is fully moddable, the government definitions have a list of the contract options they have available to them so you can add different contract options there to new or existing governments.

The possibilities are endless. Please, tell me we can add feudal contracts to city and church vassals too.

 

[WatershockPlayz]

This dev diary is incredible! Honestly can’t find a single negative thing about it all, not just the modding potential but vanilla gameplay looks to be very enjoyable!

The only thing I’ve been wondering isn’t even really a critique I’m just curious on what happens if two people both have hooks on another. like say your vassal wants to change their contract and use a hook to do so, would you be able to counter their blackmail with your own and stop the change, or are you unable to refute it. can’t say it would be a problem either way since the current contracts go far beyond what I was expecting for this game, but it would nice to know!