CK3 Dev Diary #33 - An Offer You Can’t Refuse

[arosenberger14]

Very nice, I'm excited that you're listening to community feedback too!

On that note, is it possible for vassals (or lieges) to offer short term support for a long term change in the vassal contract? I.e. say a vassal offers to join in a war or a succession crisis in return for a looser contract. Historically (and from gameplay) vassals should generally want to be as autonomous as possible unless they have a strong attachment to their liege or realm. They should have mechanisms to legally loosen the monarchy's long-term centralization without going all "LIBERTY OR DEATH" the way it is in CK2.

 

[EmoPro]

Can we have a history of said laws tied to the title history? I think it would help to remind me that for the past 150 years my character's great grandfather had been diminishing the Duke of Bavaria's rights... IDK if it would be taxing for the game engine but I think I would use said info for roleplay

 

[tribnia]

Will the title of the vassal change with the Fine Print?

 

[LordofLight]

Or are the contracts inherited?

Contracts are inherited.
If there are multiple contracts then the highest ranking contract is the one inherited (So You are an Earl, you inherit a Duchy? Your contract is now that of the Duchy.)

Not sure how it works if someone inherits a same rank title, I'd imagine they just keep theirs.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

This is an area where CK3 is clearly different from CK2. We can't know whether it's better or worse until the game is out, but it's certainly a good idea that has great potential if it's been executed well.

I have the same big question as other forumites: what prompts a negotiation?

I hope that a future DLC or patch will add feudal relief (the tax that vassals had to pay in order to inherit their predecessor's lands). If you read Magna Carta, then you'll see that it was the most important issue in feudal negotiations. It would appeal to all sorts of players: history buffs for the reason given, min-maxers for the three-way trade-off with annual taxes and levies, and storytellers for the potential for intrigue (for some twisted characters, murder could be profitable as well as pleasurable!).

 

[Keizer Harm]

This is an area where CK3 is clearly different from CK2. We can't know whether it's better or worse until the game is out, but it's certainly a good idea that has great potential if it's been executed well.

Imho this is objectively better. CK2 had no support at all for individual vassal-liege relationships.

 

[blackninja9939]

When a vassal dies, does their same contract get passed to their heir?

If the person dying is a higher tier than the heir then the heir gets the person's dying's contract. If they are the same tier or below then the heir if already landed will keep their current contract.

What does coinage rights do? Also, in one of the preview videos of the game we could see something called fortification rights that you could also grant to your vassals. Is that still a thing? How does it work?

Coinage rights give the vassal 0.3 monthly development growth in their capital county and costs the liege 0.02 in development growth.
Fortification rights is still in, the character I was playing just did not have that innovation unlocked in their culture. If they do then it appears and can give the vassal cheaper castle holding and build costs and a fort level whilst making the liege pay more for their castle build costs.

How does the Council Right work? The vassal is automatically added to council in Advisor role? Or just that when a vassal asks for a position on the council, refusing would incur tyranny/bad rep?

They get free use of the demand council position interaction which the liege cannot refuse. Allowing them to pick a council position and get it. Hooks can also be used for that interaction if you do not have the council rights.
Of course this means the council rights position is limited to only as many council positions you have that your vassals can occupy.

Looks very nice, and definitely a huge improvement. I have a few questions, though:

1) Will we be able to negotiate with a group of vassals at once, or copy-paste contracts? For example, it might be interesting for a King of England and Scotland to have a different set of obligations for his English and Scottish vassals, but it would be quite a hassle to have to change half a dozen contracts in the same fashion if, say, one wants their English vassals to provide more taxes and less levies.

2) When taking over a vassal from someone else, or vassalizing an independent ruler, what will the contract be set to? Will we immediately start negotiating?

3) When granting an unlanded courtier a title, will we be able to freely set the contract? I mean, i they don't like it, sure, we can find someone else...

1. Currently they are handled individually, which to a degree self mitigates it by virtue of encouraging you to make dukes to control the counts and kings to manage the dukes etc. But it is something we are keeping in mind for the future to see if the management of them becomes to annoying and how we can ease that. I would argue that if we need a copy and paste button then the system has become too micro and that is in itself another issue.
2. I answer this at the top of this post but its basically you keep yours unless you had none of the person you are inheriting from is better. If you are a brand new vassal then its default tax and levies and no fine print options.
3. It will be the default as above.

How does it look on the other side when the liege (or vassal) presses the magic button?

For example, let's say my liege tries to implement Forced Partition for me. Do I get Partition the instant he presses the magic button (meaning I need to change the contract to exclude that clause and then need to change my succession law to escape it) or can I instantly tell the tyrant (or "tyrant", as the case might be if he offered something "fair") where he can put his contract and rise up in rebellion to keep my old contract (or perhaps even to get a better one) and (assuming I prevail) skip the whole Partition thing?

You will be informed of the change to your contract and deal with it The AI won't do too many changes at once though and of course if you really dislike it you can rebel to be free of it all.

 

[Willem IV]

Can you have a contract with your liege the King of France as Duke of Normandy and at the same time being the King of England?

 

[Kapitalisti]

I hope we're getting an "I'm altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further" style achievement.

 

[y8r4G0xz3fFkXdGXyJ4V]

When a vassal negotiates does the liege get to accept/decline, or does it just happen, assuming the changes are balanced? If the former, what are the consequences of declining?

 

[Varus90]

Very realistic, and I'm sure it'll be dynamic when it gets released, though all I'm seeing when I look at it before actually playing is a whole bunch more new Factions to put down...

 

[AmericanViking]

How does War Sanctioned work?

 

[famaouz]

How will the contract work for non-feudal realms (e.g. Clans)? Do they have similar feature?

 

[ArVass]

As special naming for vassals of special contracts types does not exist, can modders add them (so a vassal with Palatinate-type contract will be called a Palatine or Pfalzgraf/Palsgrave, etc.) in a way or an other?

 

[Lordy's]

Look great!

It is worth mentioning that even if you propose a “fair” trade that does not give you tyranny this does not mean that the vassal will be perfectly content. There is an opinion change tied to each obligation and what status it is in, vassals will tend to dislike paying more and like paying less, and this opinion modifier will be present in the vassal’s view of their liege.

Will this opinion change be shown in the contract negotiation? There's an opinion (+5 or +10) shown in the screenshots, but that has to be his current opinion of you since the vassal is getting a worse contract...

You will be informed of the change to your contract and deal with it The AI won't do too many changes at once though and of course if you really dislike it you can rebel to be free of it all.

How do such rebellions work (apart from independence wars)? Say, if you want to make your contract better, do you go to war against the tyranny of your liege, get a favour if you win and use that to get a bette contract?

 

[mwa11ace]

Can you have a contract with your liege the King of France as Duke of Normandy and at the same time being the King of England?

I can almost guarantee that the answer to this will be "No, As you can't be a King and be the Vassal of a King" much the way it was in CK2 although if this isn't the answer i will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[GingerContingent]

I was gonna be fine with the old system you guys laid out as part of vanilla because of its potential, if not thrilled about the fact that it was a three-slot slider, but boy oh boy is this a massive improvement! Thanks for listening to the feedback.

every vassal above baron tier has an individual contract

Poor barons. No special contracts for you.

In the case of Feudal vassals, this contract can be renegotiated.

Hopefully merchants will be able to renogotiate one day too, I think some of the options there could be really cool.

Is the HREmperor is still going to be called the Kaiser?

Below that we have what we call the “Fine Print” options.

I am cracking up at the idea of a King trying to fire an uppity Duke from his council only to be told he can't due to the Fine Print.

Scutage, March, and Palatinate

Super cool way to implement specialized roles. March in particular is getting me incredibly excited from a strategic perspective, being able to fortify the exterior counties of your realm and protect valuable Development-focused provinces in the center. And of course I am very excited to force my liege to grant me every right under the sun.

Alternatively, if you have a hook on your vassal then you can use that hook to count as one free change in favour of the vassal, so you can use your hook and get those higher taxes without having to give any other concessions and not be viewed as a tyrant.

One of the things I love about the combination of roleplay and strategy right here: If you have a vassal who's more of a mess on a personal level, it will be way easier to control them by generating hooks and forcing them to do your bidding. Poor descendants generations later will still have forced partition just because their ancestor couldn't keep it in his pants.

We really wanted the interface to make this feel like an actual paper contract being signed between the liege and the vassal, thankfully we had this beautiful parchment background and wax seal shader lying around that helped spice it up.

One of my favorite parts about the whole thing! The signatures and seals are a great touch.

 

[blackninja9939]

How will the contract work for non-feudal realms (e.g. Clans)? Do they have similar feature?

Only Feudal characters use the contract with individual obligations, the Clans have a static contract which scales based on opinion.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

Only Feudal characters use the contract with individual obligations, the Clans have a static contract which scales based on opinion.

Is is moddable? If a mod adds new government types, can they be set to use the Feudal contracts mechanic?

 

[Tryvenyal]

I hope vassal gameplay is heavely concidered here, to not lock player in a very limiting contract just because AI king can. I love vassal gameplay, it´s one of the reasons CK is so great. But at several points vassal gameplay was broken and/or boring in CK2 setup. I hope it´s more thought through in CK3.