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LeSingeAffame

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Excuse my question, I'm not really informed about all the mechanics, but why is it that in this screenshot:


Tyranny is causing all subjects to lose 10 Opinion? Was it normal back then that if you'd execute someone everyone would be displeased?
Wouldn't there also be people that "like" that decision? Why is it that every subject loses opinion and no one gains any?

Thank you for every explanation :)
Your vassals are scared that they'll be next
 

ajokitty

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Your vassals are scared that they'll be next
Expanding onto this, tyranny applies when you murder someone without a legal justification, and it's a mechanic inherited from CKII. Had they attempted murder or rebelled against you, you would be able to execute without tyranny. But since you didn't, your vassals are upset that you murdered for no reason, and are afraid that you might do the same to them.
 

vandevere

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Expanding onto this, tyranny applies when you murder someone without a legal justification, and it's a mechanic inherited from CKII. Had they attempted murder or rebelled against you, you would be able to execute without tyranny. But since you didn't, your vassals are upset that you murdered for no reason, and are afraid that you might do the same to them.
All I can say to that is...

We'll see...

In my above-mentioned example, the Emperor couldn't even arrest a Known Murderer, a Known Murderer who had been caught killing the Emperor's own sons.

Five boys dead, literally everyone knew this Count was guilty, but the Emperor didn't even lay a finger on him?

Had to be the Tyranny Malus Holding him back...
 

Keizer Harm

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All I can say to that is...

We'll see...

In my above-mentioned example, the Emperor couldn't even arrest a Known Murderer, a Known Murderer who had been caught killing the Emperor's own sons.

Five boys dead, literally everyone knew this Count was guilty, but the Emperor didn't even lay a finger on him?

Had to be the Tyranny Malus Holding him back...
You described a bug. The whole point of Known Murderer is that it allows imprisonment; it is a valid imprisonment reason. Unless he has been pardoned in exchange for a favour, he should have been imprisonable. If not, then it's a bug, not design.
 

Masternachos

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You described a bug. The whole point of Known Murderer is that it allows imprisonment; it is a valid imprisonment reason. Unless he has been pardoned in exchange for a favour, he should have been imprisonable. If not, then it's a bug, not design.
With the way the council works, couldn't it also be that the council needed to approve, and some malcontent had bought favors from everybody?
 

Keizer Harm

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With the way the council works, couldn't it also be that the council needed to approve, and some malcontent had bought favors from everybody?
Yes, that's also a possibility. Key point is that there is in fact no tyranny gain for imprisoning people who belong in jail. That's what an imprisonment reason does.
 

Lordy's

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There were laws that even rulers had to obey. Monarch killing a person without trial meant that no one could feel particularly safe.
In many situations yes, but not always: If you are my good friend, the king and execute my rival (lets say the guy who stole half of my lands, slept with my wife and the one who is the suspected murderer of my children (only rumors, no imprisonment reason)), I should really not be angry.

As far as I'm aware, even though it says "to everyone", the tyranny modifier in CK2 does not apply to everyone: You spouse does not get upset.
I'd suggest (maybe they already implemented it like this, there was no DD on tyranny yet, right?) that in CK3, tyranny for an action against character X should not apply to all friends of yours who dislike X.
So if you imprison your friends rival, he will still (or even more so) be your friend. If however, you imprison your friends lover for no reason at all, he probably doesn't like that very much. And if you do the same to your rivals rival, he will, as some of you pointed out, see this as an act of tyranny and fear to be the next one on the list (he knows that he's your rival) and dislike you for your unjust deeds even more.

The main idea behind this is quite simply: No tyrant rules alone. There's always a handful of key supporters, complices. So being a tyrant should not necessarily prevent you from having friends - as long as you treat them well.
 
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Varren

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You never know - perhaps she's paid the brothel to disguise herself as one of the working girls.

Or alternatively brothels could, like in history, be able to get you almost anything you want... for a price.

Men visiting a brothel for men? Sure.
Women visiting a brothel for men or women? Extra scandalous if caught, but sure.

Visiting a brothel for a boy, a girl, a sheep? Not unheard of.
 

MrReaper182

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I want to enhance the role-playing aspect of CK3.

The problem with CK2 was that traits were not as meaningful as they should have been, and we could go on collecting a dozen or more traits, especially if you lived long enough. Because of that, every character's play through felt roughly the same. You declare war, vassalize or annex counties, usurp or create titles, and so on. There was rarely any incentive to change your play style to match the character that you were playing. What mattered was the skills themselves, and traits were meaningful only so far as they improved or reduced the skills, and thereby impacted only certain tasks like raising a larger army or squeezing more money out of the peasants. The traits themselves did not have a meaningful enough effect on gameplay, except perhaps in those few places where you might get a couple of decisions about being a lunatic, or when certain options in a decision might open up (drunkard option to cheat Death in the game of chess, for example). So while individual players did role-play in CK2, it was a kind of self-restraint that could be frustrating, since there are no real gameplay mechanics around traits that can enhance that kind of role-play experience.

The devs state quite explicitly that the goal of CK3 is to enhance role-play aspects of the game, and one of the best decisions in light of that is to restrict core personality traits to just three (or four, in some cases). What that does is that it makes the traits far more relevant in choosing your play style to suit the character you're playing as. It doesn't quite railroad the player—you can always choose to go against the character's personality at the cost of stress. One way of doing that is by upgrading tier while playing a content character, or staying in the same tier for a very long time without any appreciable increase in power as an ambitious character. These seem to be relevant considerations that could cause a medieval ruler. Similarly, owning too many titles is likely to put a great amount of stress in handling the day-to-day tasks of administering them. Ruling one kingdom is stressful enough. Ruling four different kingdoms is likely to stress out any character... A weak and content ruler is likely to breakdown under the stress, whereas a strong and ambitious is likely to manage to hold on.

What this does is improve role-playing aspect of the gameplay as it steers you towards evaluating the pros and cons of taking decisions that were otherwise no-brainers in CK2. And in a role-playing strategy game, no decision must be a no-brainer.
Role-playing your character in CK2 based on their traits was very fun and made the game a lot more harder as you could no longer do gamey things and more often than not you could not just make the most easiest choice. Role playing characters based on traits in CK2 made for some of my all time favourite stories I've ever had in all my time of playing computer game and I've been playing computer games since the early 90's. I'm very happy the developers have made players role play their characters in CK3 based on their traits as more players can see what truly makes the Crusader Kings series one of the original and greatest series of games ever made.
 

uleslaw

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IRL, you cannot plan your mental breakdown, even if you can predict that some events will be hard to deal with. that's why i think it would be better if the outcomes could be somewhat hidden and bit random. otherwise, the stress will be just another currency, allowing you to min/max and really avoid major risks. (alhough i know that the randomness is already here, because events are probably random)
 

Varren

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IRL, you cannot plan your mental breakdown, even if you can predict that some events will be hard to deal with. that's why i think it would be better if the outcomes could be somewhat hidden and bit random. otherwise, the stress will be just another currency, allowing you to min/max and really avoid major risks. (alhough i know that the randomness is already here, because events are probably random)
Honestly, I doubt there will be much incentive to min-max every last point of stress. The dev diary gave every indication that the mental breakdown events are just randomly-triggered events that happen to have stress levels as prerequisite (at most, they might have some separate on_action trigger, like on_monthly_stress_pulse, so that they can trigger separately from other events). If you avoid taking a given action just because it'll put you two points over the next stress level threshold, you're probably making a mistake. At that level, you'd be better off just dipping your toe in the higher stress bracket, then using some stress relief (coping, pets, etc) to return to safety (and, if you have no form of stress relief, then you'd probably hit that threshold soon enough regardless).

Besides, the low-tier stress events don't seem that bad. They give you a coping mechanism that can penalize you, but you'll probably need one of those sooner or later anyway. Plus, the events themselves reduce stress, so the system is self-correcting in a way. You probably only get the really nasty events if you consistently act against your traits, or steadfastly refuse any sort of coping mechanism, or possibly have a really bad day where like all your friends and family drop dead of the plague.
 

zbyrne

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That is exactly what the trait represents. Being Rakish means exactly that you are going to the brothel occasionally, it has exactly the stress effect and other consequences you describe, and it is exactly a strategic decision as you lay it out. What you describe is pretty much what the dev diary described.

The Rakish trait is not just an unlocker for the brothel decision: it is a lifestyle.
Ah cool, great then. Obviously completely failed to grasp that! Seems like a good system then! Looking forward to September.
 

randomgamer71

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Can mental break change your traits?

I.e. if I'm compassionate, but keep killing/torturing people, could I eventually lose compassionate and become cruel?

And can 'good' things increase stress? if I , for example, am cruel but pick the "kind" option (release someone rather than torture) would I gain stress?
 
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Slayen

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Can mental break change your traits?

I.e. if I'm compassionate, but keep killing/torturing people, could I eventually lose compassionate and become cruel?

And can 'good' things increase stress? if I , for example, am cruel but pick the "kind" option (release someone rather than torture) would I gain stress?
Seems possible. One of the break events shown has an option where you loose diligent and gain vengeful.
 

Tuo

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Can mental break change your traits?

I.e. if I'm compassionate, but keep killing/torturing people, could I eventually lose compassionate and become cruel?

And can 'good' things increase stress? if I , for example, am cruel but pick the "kind" option (release someone rather than torture) would I gain stress?
There's an example of a mental break replacing a trait right in the post, where Matilda loses Diligent for her newfound vengeful nature, and I'd imagine a vengeful character would gain stress for releasing a prisoner who they had a grudge against.
 

Xain

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I would guess it's because being known as someone who habitually sleeps with a lot of people is a turn off for many.
Well, that makes sense. Although maybe lustful and other rakish characters might not mind a more... experienced conquest. Anyway, assuming that the figures are final and comparable to CK2, -5 is a relatively low malus, so I can live with it.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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Well, that makes sense. Although maybe lustful and other rakish characters might not mind a more... experienced conquest. Anyway, assuming that the figures are final and comparable to CK2, -5 is a relatively low malus, so I can live with it.
Well, like the image in the first post shows, other rakish characters instead get +5 opinion.

Lustful characters might not appreciate the rake's approach to things though, and so get the normal penalty.
 

DaStormDragon

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Well, like the image in the first post shows, other rakish characters instead get +5 opinion.

Lustful characters might not appreciate the rake's approach to things though, and so get the normal penalty.
I think the Rakish Opinion would cancel out the Attraction penalty (if relevant) instead of replacing it.