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CK3 - Dev Diary #23 - Holy Orders

Hello everyone, I’m back with some spicy information about Holy Orders in Crusader Kings III!

Let’s start off with some general information: a Holy Order is an independent military organization that fights to defend and expand the influence of their faith; their first and foremost loyalty in the game will be to their god/s. If you read the earlier dev diary about mercenaries you will notice that Holy Orders have a lot in common with them: succession, being a Title with a Court, etc. However, unlike mercenaries the members have dedicated their lives to a higher purpose than that of the pursuit of gold. Very noble!

grandmaster.png


Much like in CK2 you will be able to hire Holy Orders to help you out in religious wars, but unlike in CK2 they will fight all enemies once hired. A thing to keep in mind, however, is that Holy Orders are dismissed as soon as you’re no longer at war with someone of another faith, so make sure to really time those wars right!

military_view.png


Aside from ordinary levies a Holy Order also has a number of MaA regiments that are special for Holy Orders (based on Religion and not Faith), e.g. “Order Knights”. These regiments will work as regular MaAs and have a type, specified terrain effects, etc. They are truly a force fighting for the good of your faith! Or, of course, a scary opponent to face on the battlefield...

You can only ever hire a single Holy Order, but if you are the patron of an order (more on this further down) it costs nothing to rope them into your religious conflicts. Ha, who needs mercenaries? And, unlike mercenaries, they will stick around with no time limit; no 3-year contracts!

If you are a King or an Emperor, and have a pile of gold and a big chunk of piety, you can found a new Holy Order in your realm by leasing a valid Holding (Castle or City) to the order.

holy_order_founded.png


This initial Holding granted to the Holy Order will be the basis for the Holy Order’s Levies and Taxes – their Headquarters if you will. You can only create one Holy Order, but you can still end up being the patron of several, for example by taking over land where a Holy Order of your faith has their Headquarters.

The Headquarters is the stronghold of the Holy Order, and the first King or Emperor upwards in the liege hierarchy is their formal patron, i.e. the one that can use them for free in wars. The patron must, of course, be of the same faith as the Holy Order. However, if there is no ruler of sufficient rank around to patron the Holy Order it is self-sufficient enough to still function!

county_view.png


If a Holy Order’s Headquarters is lost another Holding will be selected to fill the role, with a preference for Holdings within the current patron’s realm. But, if the Holy Order has no more holdings the Holy Order is disbanded. Keeping this in mind it’s understandable that the Grandmaster/Grandmistress will take all opportunities they see to get hold of more land…

After founding a Holy Order you might see some events, much like in Ck2, where the order can gain more Holdings in many Realms. And yes, these events do often involve loans and threats of godly wrath.

repay_loan.png


The Holy Order can also try to expand their forces if they spy a fitting candidate. After all, it is hard to fight heretics without enough warriors!

request_child.png


However, we all know that Holy Orders also have a secondary function: to stash your worthless fourth son somewhere where he can’t cause any trouble. You can ask almost all your courtiers to take vows, and depending on your gender doctrines, and the existence of a Holy Order in your faith, they will either be sent to fight for your faith or to become part of the clergy.

ask_take_vows.png


If you no longer see the need to keep a Holy Order around, or if you really need that Holding for something else, you can revoke a Holy Order’s lease to kick them from your land. This will, of course, make both the Grandmaster/Grandmistress and the Head of Faith (if one exists) less than pleased with you.

I hope you are as excited as I am to see Holy Orders in the game! Or, I’m excited to see them crop up in my faith, not my enemies’... Anyhow, that’s all I have for now. Thank you for reading!

Next week we will continue the religious theme; stay tuned for both heresies and doctrines!
 
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If you are a King or an Emperor, and have a pile of gold and a big chunk of piety, you can found a new Holy Order in your realm by leasing a valid Holding (Castle or City) to the order.
Nice!
 
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Hello everyone, I’m back with some spicy information about Holy Orders in Crusader Kings III!

Let’s start off with some general information: a Holy Order is an independent military organization that fights to defend and expand the influence of their faith; their first and foremost loyalty in the game will be to their god/s. If you read the earlier dev diary about mercenaries you will notice that Holy Orders have a lot in common with them: succession, being a Title with a Court, etc. However, unlike mercenaries the members have dedicated their lives to a higher purpose than that of the pursuit of gold. Very noble!

View attachment 569676

Much like in CK2 you will be able to hire Holy Orders to help you out in religious wars, but unlike in CK2 they will fight all enemies once hired. A thing to keep in mind, however, is that Holy Orders are dismissed as soon as you’re no longer at war with someone of another faith, so make sure to really time those wars right!

View attachment 569678

Aside from ordinary levies a Holy Order also has a number of MaA regiments that are special for Holy Orders (based on Religion and not Faith), e.g. “Order Knights”. These regiments will work as regular MaAs and have a type, specified terrain effects, etc. They are truly a force fighting for the good of your faith! Or, of course, a scary opponent to face on the battlefield...

You can only ever hire a single Holy Order, but if you are the patron of an order (more on this further down) it costs nothing to rope them into your religious conflicts. Ha, who needs mercenaries? And, unlike mercenaries, they will stick around with no time limit; no 3-year contracts!

If you are a King or an Emperor, and have a pile of gold and a big chunk of piety, you can found a new Holy Order in your realm by leasing a valid Holding (Castle or City) to the order.

View attachment 569677

This initial Holding granted to the Holy Order will be the basis for the Holy Order’s Levies and Taxes – their Headquarters if you will. You can only create one Holy Order, but you can still end up being the patron of several, for example by taking over land where a Holy Order of your faith has their Headquarters.

The Headquarters is the stronghold of the Holy Order, and the first King or Emperor upwards in the liege hierarchy is their formal patron, i.e. the one that can use them for free in wars. The patron must, of course, be of the same faith as the Holy Order. However, if there is no ruler of sufficient rank around to patron the Holy Order it is self-sufficient enough to still function!

View attachment 569680

If a Holy Order’s Headquarters is lost another Holding will be selected to fill the role, with a preference for Holdings within the current patron’s realm. But, if the Holy Order has no more holdings the Holy Order is disbanded. Keeping this in mind it’s understandable that the Grandmaster/Grandmistress will take all opportunities they see to get hold of more land…

After founding a Holy Order you might see some events, much like in Ck2, where the order can gain more Holdings in many Realms. And yes, these events do often involve loans and threats of godly wrath.

View attachment 569679

The Holy Order can also try to expand their forces if they spy a fitting candidate. After all, it is hard to fight heretics without enough warriors!

View attachment 569674

However, we all know that Holy Orders also have a secondary function: to stash your worthless fourth son somewhere where he can’t cause any trouble. You can ask almost all your courtiers to take vows, and depending on your gender doctrines, and the existence of a Holy Order in your faith, they will either be sent to fight for your faith or to become part of the clergy.

View attachment 569675

If you no longer see the need to keep a Holy Order around, or if you really need that Holding for something else, you can revoke a Holy Order’s lease to kick them from your land. This will, of course, make both the Grandmaster/Grandmistress and the Head of Faith (if one exists) less than pleased with you.

I hope you are as excited as I am to see Holy Orders in the game! Or, I’m excited to see them crop up in my faith, not my enemies’... Anyhow, that’s all I have for now. Thank you for reading!

Next week we will continue the religious theme; stay tuned for both heresies and doctrines!
Can holy orders become their own de facto independent realms as in CK2, and with groups like the Teutonic Order?
 
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If you are a King or an Emperor, and have a pile of gold and a big chunk of piety, you can found a new Holy Order in your realm by leasing a valid Holding (Castle or City) to the order.
So, what stops Catholics from having dozens of holy orders?
 
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It's all wars against people who don't share your religion. Not all of your wars.

Much like in CK2 you will be able to hire Holy Orders to help you out in religious wars, but unlike in CK2 they will fight all enemies once hired. A thing to keep in mind, however, is that Holy Orders are dismissed as soon as you’re no longer at war with someone of another faith, so make sure to really time those wars right!
 
You can ask almost all your courtiers to take vows, and depending on your gender doctrines, and the existence of a Holy Order in your faith, they will either be sent to fight for your faith or to become part of the clergy.

Nice Dev Diary! Will we be able to tell whether a character would be going to join a holy order or the clergy before the character is asked to take the vows?
 
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If you are a King or an Emperor, and have a pile of gold and a big chunk of piety, you can found a new Holy Order in your realm by leasing a valid Holding (Castle or City) to the order.

Does every religion still have a maximum amount of holy orders, or are can there be an infinite amount if you have enough kings and emperors of your religion?
 
You still have to be at war with heathens to keep them. TBH I didn't even know they didn't fight against other members of your faith when you hired them in CK2. Seems like an extremely rare edge case.
 
To be clear, every faith has it's own Holy Orders, though the amount of can vary from 0 to around 1 per king/emperor?

When creating a new Holy Order, how is the name decided? Can you customize the name as founder or patron?

Can custom faiths create Holy Orders too?
 
Very fascinating to see the holy order mechanics, they look to be a step up from CK2 wherever they've been changed. A quick question, will the historical holy orders like the Knights Templar, Knights Hospitaller, Teutonic Knights, etc. appear dynamically as the game progresses, or will you have to start in a year after their historical date of founding to guarantee they'll be in the game?
 
I guess it can be cheesed so to say. It would be pretty funny if we got an event from the leader of the holy order once he figures out that he had been waging war against the pope all along!
 

Can they still only be hired or patronized by one realm / ruler at at time?

I always thought it was sort of a minor problem that sometimes you were just shit out of luck if someone else had grabbed the holy order right when you needed it.

Though it is a bit realistic.

Also what can you tell us about, CK3 having many more faiths and if the old mantra of everyone gets a holy order will be applied to this?

Are we essentially replacing the old 'they pop up system as you reform' with you simply found them as you need them for the more out their religions? Because I could see that working.

Also how if at all will it be tied to the size and strength of the religion? I always felt like CK2;s Holy Orders' kind of had a focus on religions that were already powerful. And that kind of made sense, but it also kind of didn't because they did also sort of rise out of need to protect co-coreligionists specifically on pilgrimages.
 
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This sounds really nice. I have some questions:
-> Is the "cannot marry" part of the order member trait dependent on your doctrines about clerical marriage, or can order members never marry regardless of faith?
-> Can custom faiths also create holy orders?
-> Can holy orders still control holdings in multiple realms? If yes, what's in it for kings/emperors who don't control their headquarters and are therefore not their patron?
-> Doesn't it sound really exploitable for holy orders to fight anyone regardless of faith? Will "faith hostility" play a role regarding who holy orders are willing to fight?
 
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his will, of course, make both the Grandmaster/Grandmistress and the Head of Faith (if one exists) less than pleased with you.
I don't care about the Grandmaster, but is there a way for me to get the Popette on my side, when i offer perfect (forged) proof that the Knight templars are a bunch of deviant heterosexuals?
The french King managed to get the Pope to give his blessing to Philip IV attacks on the Knight Templars
 
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It seems quite a bit silly that you can only hire one HO. Hiring multiple Holy Orders should be possible, but the price (whatever it is) should grow exponentially.

I really don’t like Holy Orders fighting all of your wars. Does anybody know of historical evidence when something like this happened.

Crusaders burnt down Zadar during the Fourth crusade. Not sure how much of a role the Holy Orders played here though.
I'm fine with it being there, but using the HO to fight against non-infidels should come with major consequences.