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valynnit

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Probably Polish culture with Russian father.

EDIT: Actually, probably just a pre-defined character name since she's the same in the CK2 files.
She's russian and orthodox (below traits), and her name should follow same latinisation rules as other russian names. If her father is Sviatoslav, she is Vyšeslava and CK2 is also wrong
 

TheDarkMaster

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That is most often how dynasties ended up with unfavorable circumstances in real life, so it sounds fine to me. Securing your succession 100% should mean needing to micromanage your family members.
The issue I was pointing out was that we still don't know if all characters default to matrilineal marriages in female preferred realms and use both marriage types equally in equal realms.
 

fodazd

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The thing about matrilieal marriages is that if every dynasty would only accept regular marriages for men and matrilineal marriages for women, then there wouldn't be many marriages anymore. It makes sense from the perspective of wanting to spread your dynasty, but in every marriage between two different dynasties, one of them always has to lose out. And yes, in CK2 you could exploit the marriage AI in order to make sure that is was always the *other* dynasty who was losing out, which meant you could spread your own dynasty over the entire map pretty fast... And there is nothing wrong with that in principle, but I personally would prefer it if the AI was a little more suspicious of marrying into a dynasty who always seems to get the better marriage type for them.
 

Will Steel

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It all looks fantasic
except for that spooky spouse ghost
Yeah, I think that should be left out. If a character is unmarried, instead of a ghost spouse it should just not display anything there, kinda like the screenshot of Aamira next to her.
 

TheDarkMaster

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Yeah, I think that should be left out. If a character is unmarried, instead of a ghost spouse it should just not display anything there, kinda like the screenshot of Aamira next to her.
I think the ghost is a button to get married, since that's a player character. The unmarried one isn't a player character, thus no shadow.
 

King Anund

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I've written down the concerns regarding the use of "Marrano", Poganstwo, and the gender status in the Basques and will make sure that this is discussed in the team!
What about the Catholic Basque whose society was more egalitarian than the rest of Christendom?
It's, or at least in the case of groups like the Basques, being discussed/
Please, don't misrepresent the Basques. The whole basque matriarchal society is more of a hipothesis than a historical fact, and probably it doesn't represent the Medieval basques. Historical records prove otherwise: the Kingdom of Navarra and the Lordship of Vizcaya, the two main political entities of the region, follow a male preference succession (what in CK2 would be Agnatic-Cognatic), even in their earliest centuries. Even a supposed matriarchy at a popular level has to contend with the fact that the custom for Basques was to reference to the father in surnames (Garcés, son of García; Sanchez, son of Sancho, Iñiguez, son of Iñigo. Or their latin counterparts: Garceanis, Enneconis...) and that the Navarrese Libro de fuegos, a 1366 census of the whole Navarrese Kingdom, lists men as the head of the households, unless the household was that of a widow.
 

Chlodio

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Please, don't misrepresent the Basques. The whole basque matriarchal society is more of a hipothesis than a historical fact, and probably it doesn't represent the Medieval basques. Historical records prove otherwise: the Kingdom of Navarra and the Lordship of Vizcaya, the two main political entities of the region, follow a male preference succession (what in CK2 would be Agnatic-Cognatic), even in their earliest centuries. Even a supposed matriarchy at a popular level has to contend with the fact that the custom for Basques was to reference to the father in surnames (Garcés, son of García; Sanchez, son of Sancho, Iñiguez, son of Iñigo. Or their latin counterparts: Garceanis, Enneconis...) and that the Navarrese Libro de fuegos, a 1366 census of the whole Navarrese Kingdom, lists men as the head of the households, unless the household was that of a widow.
Nobody was saying they were matriarchial? I didn't even say they were egalitarian, I said they were more egalitarian than their surroundings.
 

Sir Tornado

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I have a problem with the India religious map. India was never divided on religious lines in this way among the Dharmic religions. There was no time when a province was entirely Buddhist or entirely Hindu or entirely Jain. These three religions co-existed at a local level. Religious homogeneity in this way was alien to India for this time period.

This map goes even further and establishes provinces at a sect level as Vaishnavism and Shavaism and so forth. This is just unfathomable. It looks like a porting of Catholic/Orthodox or Shia/Sunni, but the differences between these sects are in no way comparable to differences between similar sects in Christianity or Islam. Its not as if a Vaishavite king was going to persecute a Shaivaite subject (which would have led to religious homogeniety in the end)
 
Last edited:
Apr 11, 2017
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I have a problem with the India religious map. India was never divided on religious lines in this way among the Dharmic religions. There was no time when a province was entirely Buddhist or entirely Hindu or entirely Jain. These three religions co-existed at a local level. Religious homogeneity in this way was alien to India for this time period.
That would have to be modeled by easier converting, the current system does not allow for minority religions, so there really is no way to implement it.
 

Sir Tornado

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That would have to be modeled by easier converting, the current system does not allow for minority religions, so there really is no way to implement it.
One way to implement it is to not implement it. Have all the provinces simply categorized as Dharmic (or Indian or eastern or whatever name they are going with) without further segmentation into particular religions.
 

Trex41

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One way to implement it is to not implement it. Have all the provinces simply categorized as Dharmic (or Indian or eastern or whatever name they are going with) without further segmentation into particular religions.
It would make no sense to not have Jains, Buddhists, and Hindus as separate, since that did definately have huge impacts on policies and the like in Medieval India. I agree that having the sects in the game for these religions makes no sense, but to ignore the defining thing that happened in India in this time - the decline of Buddhism and Jainism, would be silly.
 

Silversweeeper

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One way to implement it is to not implement it. Have all the provinces simply categorized as Dharmic (or Indian or eastern or whatever name they are going with) without further segmentation into particular religions.
That'd create issues even before you get to custom Dharmic faiths that might not play nice together with the others. If a realm outside the already Dharmic part of the map converts to a a Dharmic religion, chances are any provinces they convert that aren't in the already Dharmic regions of the map wouldn't have sizeable minorities following other Dharmic faiths in the short term (or at least not minorities larger than whatever was present before the province converted), meaning that e.g. "Theravada [with a Catholic minority]" is going to be more accurate than "Dharmic [with a Theravada majority]".
 

viola

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Dharmic religions should just offer the options to convert to each others very easily even if they've disappeared from the map, and have relatively good relations with each others. It's unfortunate the game is going to do a poor job at showing the coexistence of multiple religious schools on the same territory since each country can only have one religion, but as long as the Dharmic elites are able to keep converting to each others and keep the different religious schools alive that might alleviate the problem.
 

Teutonic_Thrash

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I have a problem with the India religious map. India was never divided on religious lines in this way among the Dharmic religions. There was no time when a province was entirely Buddhist or entirely Hindu or entirely Jain. These three religions co-existed at a local level. Religious homogeneity in this way was alien to India for this time period.

This map goes even further and establishes provinces at a sect level as Vaishnavism and Shavaism and so forth. This is just unfathomable. It looks like a porting of Catholic/Orthodox or Shia/Sunni, but the differences between these sects are in no way comparable to differences between similar sects in Christianity or Islam. Its not as if a Vaishavite king was going to persecute a Shaivaite subject (which would have led to religious homogeniety in the end)
With the new religious relationship system I assume that opinion maluses between the Dharmic Faiths will be negligible at best.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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I have a problem with the India religious map. India was never divided on religious lines in this way among the Dharmic religions. There was no time when a province was entirely Buddhist or entirely Hindu or entirely Jain. These three religions co-existed at a local level. Religious homogeneity in this way was alien to India for this time period.

This map goes even further and establishes provinces at a sect level as Vaishnavism and Shavaism and so forth. This is just unfathomable. It looks like a porting of Catholic/Orthodox or Shia/Sunni, but the differences between these sects are in no way comparable to differences between similar sects in Christianity or Islam. Its not as if a Vaishavite king was going to persecute a Shaivaite subject (which would have led to religious homogeniety in the end)
As always the province religion isn't indicating a province to be "entirely* a particular faith.
It's the majority in the province.
 
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Mr. Capiatlist

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There is an OT forum for these sorts of more nuanced discussions. Please do not use dev diaries for arguments.
 

Will Steel

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There was no time when a province was entirely Buddhist or entirely Hindu or entirely Jain.
Religions and cultures in PDS games mapmodes do not represent the absolute entirety of a culture in a province on the map mode, they just represent majority culture.

That means that even when a county is Hindu, there are still Jains and Buddhists living there, just not as the majority population and the game represents majority on the map. Even when entire Persia becomes Shia on map, there are still a small minority of Zoroastrians living there, just not numbers large enough to be politically relevant. Even when Turkish becomes majority culture of Anatolia in late game, there is still small pockets of Greek population there, just not the majority.

It is abstracted in CK and EU games, and there is no issue with that. Which is why the map in the dev diary is correct.

The only exception to this rule is games like Imperator or Victoria, which have proper population system and represent exactly who lives where.
 
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viola

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Religions and cultures in PDS games mapmodes do not represent the absolute entirety of a culture in a province on the map mode, they just represent majority culture.

That means that even when a county is Hindu, there are still Jains and Buddhists living there, just not as the majority population and the game represents majority on the map. Even when entire Persia becomes Shia on map, there are still a small minority of Zoroastrians living there, just not numbers large enough to be politically relevant. Even when Turkish becomes majority culture of Anatolia in late game, there is still small pockets of Greek population there, just not the majority.

It is abstracted in CK and EU games, and there is no issue with that. Which is why the map in the dev diary is correct.

The only exception to this rule is games like Imperator or Victoria, which have proper population system and represent exactly who lives where.
Flavour-wise I guess this can be true but practically these implied minorities exist only in the mind of the player, they can have no effect on the game and effectively might as well not exist.
 

Beowulf23

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How will the different Hindu and Buddist faiths be treated? Will they be something like heresies, the divide between Catholicism/Orthodoxy, the branches of Hinduism in CK2, or something else entirely?