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CK3 Dev Diary #2- The Medieval Map

Hello everyone!

I would like to take a moment to talk about the map of Crusader Kings 3, what the vision for the map is, and how it is different from Crusader Kings 2.

Let’s start with our ambitions. CK2 had several parts of the map that was outdated, and to be frank, a bit underdeveloped. When we started to update the map for CK3, we knew that we wanted to take a pass at everything, do additional research, and update the different areas accordingly. This goes for the entire De Jure title hierarchy, so there are several new kingdoms and duchies present. In terms of scope, the map will roughly match that of CK2. I know I will disappoint those of you hoping for China, but, sadly, it will not be on the map. We will however, have a few new additions: the entirety of Tibet will be present, unlike CK2 where the most eastern parts were excluded, and sub-Saharan Africa is also extended, where we’ve gone all the way to the Nigerian coast.

When setting the map visuals, province layout, rivers, and more, the focus has always been on clarity. The map should be easy to read and get information from. For example, you should be able to read most of the terrain simply by looking at the map, without the need to click on the province, or tooltip it, in order to find that out, while rivers should be easy to see and let you know if you will cross one when moving armies around.

We represent the map on three different zoom levels. When zoomed far out, the map will turn into an actual paper map, allowing for an easy overview and stylish screenshots. Zoom in a bit and you will have the 3D map, with the typical political overlay, great for interacting with your vassals and other realms. Zoom in even further and you’ll see the names of all the counties along with the terrain, as we strip away the realm colors. Perfect for moving armies around and knowing where to pick your battles, without the need to switch around to different map modes (but don’t worry, we still have several map modes for easily accessing different information).

One of the most notable changes is how we handle Baronies. In CK2, Counties were the smallest entity we had on the map, a province if you will, with several Baronies represented through the interface of the County view. In CK3, we took the next logical step and made Baronies into their own provinces. We have been able to create a map with much more granularity and better accuracy. Most Counties will normally consist of two to five Baronies, with some exceptions. The amount of provinces will be noticeable when waging war, as it offers a larger degree of movement for you armies (more on that in the future).

dd_02_baronies.png


To give you a good idea of the increased province density, here is a comparison of the British Islands in CK2 and CK3, being on the left and right side, respectively:

dd_02_ck2_ck3_comparison.png


Before you all go nuts about playable baronies: No. You cannot play as a Baron. The lowest playable rank will still be that of a Count. The emphasis will therefore be on the Counties rather than the individual Baronies. As such, Baronies exist with a few things in mind. For example, they can never leave a county. This means Counties stay the same over time, avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm (reducing that hideous border-gore ever-so-slightly). The number of Baronies within a County is one factor that represents its wealth and how “good” it is. Another important factor is the terrain. A County with a lot of Desert will not be as beneficial as one with a lot of Farmlands for example.

Speaking of terrain, we have several different terrain types spread out across the map. Instead of having a single terrain spread out across large areas of the map, we differentiate between similar terrain types by separating them, such as Forest and Taiga, or Plains and Drylands. Not only does it make the map look and feel distinct in different parts of the world, they also have a different impact on gameplay.

dd_02_england.png


dd_02_maghreb.png


Then we have Impassable Terrain. These are far more frequent, and in many cases much larger, than you will be used to from CK2. We’ve essentially used these for any area that we consider uninhabited enough to warrant it not being part of an existing County. Some areas have plenty of smaller impassable provinces, such as the mountains surrounding Bohemia, while others have fewer and far larger pieces of inhospitable land, such as the deserts of Arabia and Syria. Impassable Terrain cannot be traversed by armies, often creating bottlenecks that you’ll have to pass through or perhaps even choose to go around, should it be heavily fortified.

dd_02_impassable.png


That’s it for now. I hope you enjoyed this early sneak peak of the map and I'll be sure to show more to you in the future!
 
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That's great, but playable barons still aren't part of the game focus

But why though? Having them being playable would add a whole new level of replayability while creating drama with count. Just think about, dynamic county border changes. Plus have you ever seen a map of the HRE? Barons being everywhere on there, hell even EU4 does that better by having every entity on the map being playable, doesn't matter if is a baron, a free city, or church, a count
 
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When you say baronies will always be part of a county, does this mean we can't transfer baron level vassals to other vassals anymore? Or just that baronies will always be dejure to a specific county.
The former. You cannot transfer barony vassals out of a given county, and the county holder will always be that baron's liege.
 
One of the most notable changes is how we handle Baronies. In CK2, Counties were the smallest entity we had on the map, a province if you will, with several Baronies represented through the interface of the County view. In CK3, we took the next logical step and made Baronies into their own provinces. We have been able to create a map with much more granularity and better accuracy. Most Counties will normally consist of two to five Baronies, with some exceptions. The amount of provinces will be noticeable when waging war, as it offers a larger degree of movement for you armies (more on that in the future).

Before you all go nuts about playable baronies: No. You cannot play as a Baron. The lowest playable rank will still be that of a Count. The emphasis will therefore be on the Counties rather than the individual Baronies. As such, Baronies exist with a few things in mind. For example, they can never leave a county. This means Counties stay the same over time, avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm (reducing that hideous border-gore ever-so-slightly).

More provinces! Great!

The second part however needs a little bit of clarification:
"Baronies can never leave a county" - I get this part, it essentially means "de jure" counties always stay the same.

"Avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm" - I suppose this means there's now way to inherit a barony that is in a county that's not part of your own realm? I get that this was a pain in CK2 because not all subholdings were visible on the map. But in CK3 this (1) would actually be playable since it would be clearly visible on the map and (2) it would be more historical (yes, bordergore was extremely prevalent in medieval times. Apologies to all bordergore haters). I, for one, would like to be able to inherit single baronies outside my realm, but that might just be the historian in me talking. It would also provide a great Casus Belli.

Sidenote:
Speaking of Casus Belli, I hope it will be possible to conquer more than what you declare for, not like currently in CK2.
Maybe depending on your warscore you will be able to take more, but the more you take that was not part of the wargoal the more it costs, scaling up. For example if you take the wargoal, then the second thing you take costs twice as much as normal, the third 3 times as much, etc. This way you can take more than you initially wanted, but it's not possible to completely annex the enemy's realm.
 
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1. Why not?

2. The AI never formed these de jure empires anyway, I don't see the need to be bothered about them. They're for the players.
The AI used de Jure kingdoms and empires to have a rough idea where to expand (which is why northern Scandinavia was split into its own kingdom iirc).
Not that I think it's a bad thing.

But why though? Having them being playable would add a whole new level of replayability while creating drama with count. Just think about, dynamic county border changes. Plus have you ever seen a map of the HRE? Barons being everywhere on there, hell even EU4 does that better by having every entity on the map being playable, doesn't matter if is a baron, a free city, or church, a count
Because that would require other content to be cut to make it in.
It's not that it wouldn't be a good thing to play as a Baron, even if I don't see the appeal, but the game isn't built around it. It's built around the player being at least a count, and to have at least a couple of vassals

Because the Earth is flat... duh.
Pff, the Earth doesn't exist, wake up sheeple :p
 
The news that we are getting more of sub-saharan Africa, as well as Tibet and Mongolia is great.

Also the map look gorgeous but one things really bugs me and it's those castle models. They all look the same and lack any kind of sprawl around them. Is this because the game is still early beta and that's just a placeholder? I mean the urban sprawls in ck2 were good and the ones in imperator are awsome. Not having them in ck3 would be rather odd and the map would lose a lot of it's beauty.
 
The AI used de Jure kingdoms and empires to have a rough idea where to expand (which is why northern Scandinavia was split into its own kingdom iirc).
Not that I think it's a bad thing.
Yeah, I can agree. Point is, the AI hardly, if ever forms these titles. If they just serve to give broad-strokes ideas of where to expand, I don't see the complaints tbh.
 
The news that we are getting more of sub-saharan Africa, as well as Tibet and Mongolia is great.

Also the map look gorgeous but one things really bugs me and it's those castle models. They all look the same and lack any kind of sprawl around them. Is this because the game is still early beta and that's just a placeholder? I mean the urban sprawls in ck2 were good and the ones in imperator are awsome. Not having them in ck3 would be rather odd and the map would lose a lot of it's beauty.
I hope they're placeholder. The whole world looks kind of empty right now with the castles and cities having like no sprawl. It makes the otherwise beautiful map look like a weird rural abandoned wasteland.
 
Love the direction you are taking the map.

  1. Do armies now siege individual baronies on their own barony province?
  2. Can armies pass through barony tiles which do not have a holding yet developed?
 
The former. You cannot transfer barony vassals out of a given county, and the county holder will always be that baron's liege.

But we can still inherit baronies from other counties and detach them as our direct vassals, right? Like it may happen in CK2 atm.
 
So, will we place our armies in individual baronies instead of counties? Isn't it going to be a bit too much micromanagment if we have to manually move the army to another barony after every siege?
 
The former. You cannot transfer barony vassals out of a given county, and the county holder will always be that baron's liege.

How will we be able to simulate things like Imperial Free Cities, Imperial Immediacy, and other parts of history where cities became direct vassals of the crown in order to not have to pay taxes to both the crown and their liege? It'd be weird to have to make a city a county's primary holding/barony (I assume CK3 will still use this system) just to be able to have it as a direct vassal, as that would also turn the other baronies in the county into that city's vassals, which Free Cities (and similar cities outside of the HRE) did not have.
 
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Speaking of terrain, we have several different terrain types spread out across the map. Instead of having a single terrain spread out across large areas of the map, we differentiate between similar terrain types by separating them, such as Forest and Taiga, or Plains and Drylands. Not only does it make the map look and feel distinct in different parts of the world, they also have a different impact on gameplay.

Having varied terrain is a good first step. Now please introduce a system of economic goods (for example, Imperator) so that provinces don't all feel identical in terms of economic output and there is some meaningful interaction in terms of trade and diplomacy.

A count who controls wine-making counties in Burgundy should be living in very different circumstances from an earl managing pastures in York. People who shear sheep in England should have a vested interest in maintaining good relations with the cloth-making industry in Flanders.
 
Because that would require other content to be cut to make it in.
It's not that it wouldn't be a good thing to play as a Baron, even if I don't see the appeal, but the game isn't built around it. It's built around the player being at least a count, and to have at least a couple of vassals .
So the game would be just ck2 with fancier graphics/map, even worse character models, a few cut off content, some new interesting content, and a large chunk of the map being made unplayable forever because the devs don't see how baron flavour would add a whole new level of interactivity?

Really disappointed by CK3 by far. Again I really hope that playable barons and dynamic county changes would not be made hardcoded so modders can fix the map
 
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Can you tell us anything about the visual look of holdings on the map? It seems we’ve seen different types of castles. Do castles/cities/temples visually change as they’re upgraded, or do the different castles we’ve seen simply represent unplayable baronies vs county capital baronies?
 
Great diary! I am really glad that the bordergore thing is being dealt with :)
I saw 'development' parameter on the screenshot. I hope that in the new game province income will depend on its population (its growth rate should be increased via provincial decision), and income will be modified by economic development of province as well as certain buildings, development should also be increased via provincial decision. Somewhat similiar to EU3.
P.S. Maybe the price of local goods also should count