CK3 Dev Diary #19: Factions and Civil Wars

[Baron von Shoes]

So, succesfull pupulist can create always not existed or random realm, or also curretly established for example king of France hold Duchy of Normandy as secondary and normandy populist want his own, local ruler ?

Populist Factions prefer to usurp an appropriate existing title if possible. For example, if the Umayyads conquers all of Spain and then lose to a Castillian Catholic Revolt, the new King will take the title of the King of Castille, either usurping it from the Umayyads (if they hold it) or creating it (if it has been destroyed). Only if that is not possible will they generate a new dynamic revolt title, which will be named after the most powerful county in the faction.

 

[Baron von Shoes]

Will foreign powers have the ability to influence a faction or civil war? The Encourage Dissent council task in CK2 was pretty limited to a single county, and I can only give so many gifts to rebels while they stockpile it for their ransom. Or maybe have your spymaster be able to find out rebel factions and their dissent, so you have the perfect time to strike.
One famous example was how Philippe Augustus encouraged Hal and Richard's rebellions against Henry II (while Geoffrey died from an injury during a tournament on one such diplomatic missions), I disliked watching independence rebellions get put down by a rival that I'd like to see humbled.

Not currently, but that is an excellent idea. Probably won't make it in for release, but hopefully we can add it in a future patch?

 

[Denkt]

Not currently, but that is an excellent idea. Probably won't make it in for release, but hopefully we can add it in a future patch?

It is quite needed to give the smaller realms a fighting chance against empires. It should be possible for foreign realms to lend their support to factions thus make them revolt quicker.

Also there should probably be factions that is not directly about weakning the liege but like stuff such as forcing the liege to press a vassals claim and maybe all kind of other stuff. I think that would work quite well with the hook system and such, allowing a more diplomatic way for a vassal to grow stronger.

 

[PostWomanism]

All of this is making me wish more and more that we had actual peace treaties that could be negotiated, rather than static goals that are chosen for us.

 

[Alssadar]

Not currently, but that is an excellent idea. Probably won't make it in for release, but hopefully we can add it in a future patch?

It is quite needed to give the smaller realms a fighting chance against empires. It should be possible for foreign realms to lend their support to factions thus make them revolt quicker.

Thanks, but I do want to make sure it is a balanced measure. While it's all good as France to support Scottish independence against England, it would be annoying if the Kaiser can carpet siege your borders because his cousin, a Baron in Brittany, has a vague claim to the throne. For foreign lords to offer assistance, maybe they can gift the rebels a number of Men-at-Arms, or pay for a mercenary band? That way, it still is an investment for the people supporting the rebels, but it means that large kingdoms/empires can't just ransack any country they want.
Of course, if the rebels fail, there should be a way of extracting payment (either through the peace terms or a cassus belli) from those foreign lords who aided your rebels, earning a 10 year truce to prevent them from backstabbing you again, or stopping them from supporting other rebellions in other Kingdoms for a decade or so.

 

[Choorus]

Thanks, but I do want to make sure it is a balanced measure. While it's all good as France to support Scottish independence against England, it would be annoying if the HRE can carpet siege your borders because his cousin, a Baron in Brittany, has a vague claim to the throne. For foreign lords to offer assistance, maybe they can gift the rebels a number of Men-at-Arms, or pay for a mercenary band? That way, it still is an investment for the people supporting the rebels, but it means that large kingdoms/empires can't just ransack any country they want.
Of course, if the rebels fail, there should be a way of extracting payment (either through the peace terms or a cassus belli) from those foreign lords who aided your rebels, or earning a 10 year truce to prevent them from backstabbing you again while stopping them from supporting other rebellions.

That sounds quite a lot like what happened historically. E.g. Mieszko II of Poland regained the throne and re-established the kingdom thanks to the host of knights provided by the HRE nobles. He effectively carpet-sieged the Western Poland...

 

[EmoPro]

I hope there is a family rivalry system in game Family gotta stick together

Types of Factions
There are currently 5 distinct types of Factions, each of which has its own goals.

• The Independence Faction, seeking to gain independence from their liege.
• Claimant Factions, seeking to replace their liege with a new one.
• The Liberty Faction, seeking to reduce Crown Authority in the realm.
• Populist Factions, seeking to form a new realm of their religion and culture.
• The Peasant Faction, seeking to pay fewer taxes to their liege.

I hope the AI will not join factions for the sake of joining factions, it feels fake IMO in CK2 to have vassals randomly join factions to demand for lower crown authority. It feels like they exist just to break your realm. Here's to hope more depth is added in CK3

 

[Denkt]

Thanks, but I do want to make sure it is a balanced measure. While it's all good as France to support Scottish independence against England, it would be annoying if the Kaiser can carpet siege your borders because his cousin, a Baron in Brittany, has a vague claim to the throne. For foreign lords to offer assistance, maybe they can gift the rebels a number of Men-at-Arms, or pay for a mercenary band? That way, it still is an investment for the people supporting the rebels, but it means that large kingdoms/empires can't just ransack any country they want.
Of course, if the rebels fail, there should be a way of extracting payment (either through the peace terms or a cassus belli) from those foreign lords who aided your rebels, earning a 10 year truce to prevent them from backstabbing you again, or stopping them from supporting other rebellions in other Kingdoms for a decade or so.

I think there would need to be limit who can join a faction, if you have an Alliance with the HRE you should probably be able to invite them, Assuming the liege don't have a non aggression pact with them. Vassals who are part of Another de jure should probably be able to invite their de jure liege so English vassals in France could invite the king of France for certain factions, maybe a faction about becoming vassals to the de jure liege.​

How support would work I don't know, if factions had war treasury, other realms could donate to it, leding men at arms could work and maybe even join in a war in the most extreme case, which maybe will happen anyway with Alliances.

All Factions have a Military Power rating, which is a ratio between the combined military strength of all members and the military strength of their liege. Factions also have a Discontent score, which gauges how close the Faction is to sending their ultimatum.

How are military Power caculated between vassal and liege, do it just consider the quantity of armies or is quality factored in, also do it consider Alliances or not?​

 

[Torredebelem]

Good dev diary.

Is there any trigger that addresses the Discontent of a faction?

Something like :

faction_xpto = {

    discontent = x

}

Thank you!

 

[Baron von Shoes]

Good dev diary.

Is there any trigger that addresses the Discontent of a faction?

Something like :

faction_xpto = {

    discontent = x

}

Yes, very close to that but it is called 'faction_discontent'. We also have triggers for 'faction_power' and 'faction_power_threshold'.

 

[Winterwolf00]

Any plans for a 'Loyalist Faction' ?

 

[Varus90]

Any plans for a 'Loyalist Faction' ?

Coming soon, "CK3+"...

 

[Bulan]

have you considered having the winner of a populist cultural revolt get an ethnarch title if they get enough of the in game provinces with that culture? E.g. "King of the Lombards" / "Kingdom of the Lombards" rather than "Kingdom of Lombardy"? A lot of early medieval titles are properly rendered as ethnarchic rather than geographic. Similarly it would be great to get hybrid titles if the winner doesn't have the majority of that culture's provinces, i.e. create the "Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia".

 

[jere8184]

Are multiple claimant factions possible at the same time?

 

[Torredebelem]

Yes, very close to that but it is called 'faction_discontent'. We also have triggers for 'faction_power' and 'faction_power_threshold'.

Ah excellent!

Keep up the good work!

 

[Parzival02]

This is a great improvement, especially with populist and peasant revolts. I always hated those in CK2. those darn waldensians

 

[Pied-Noir]

@Doomdark

https://www.gog.com/game/doomdarks_revenge

Hurry, it's free!

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Not currently, but that is an excellent idea. Probably won't make it in for release, but hopefully we can add it in a future patch?

On the subject of manipulating revolts, I'm really surprised there isn't the option to be a rabble rouser as a noble. Plenty of nobles used peasant unrest to their advantage to get extra soldiers for their own ends. Either to weaken their rivals or to support their claims. Also, any chance of directly supporting foreign civil wars?

 

[Superlazerninja12]

So, I noticed something, one of populist revolts says "Kurdish Apostalic" does that mean that there are more branches of religions than CK2?

 

[Raga-Zun]

A few things.
So how does a vassal or vassals leaving a faction with over 80% military affect growing discontent?

If a claimant is placed on the throne, will members of the faction that placed them there like the ruler more and be liked by them more? I think that'd be a good idea.

Can people not of the populist faction's religion/ethnicity join it and then become part of the new realm? Eg. can Matilda of Tuscany join the Juterbog revolt and if she does will her part of Italy become part of the new realm? Also, can the player become the new ruler of the new state (if they have sufficient martial) and how is the new ruler decided?

Finally (I think I'm forgetting something) you wrote counties join factions based on disliking their holder (rather than the realm head). If you're the realm head it seems you then have no control over these rebellions happening because they are caused by your vassals being unlikable screw ups, so will you as a realm head have any ability to deal with growing discontent with your vassals by their counties or no? ie. to prevent these rebellions before they happen.

Edit: Remembered what I forgot. If unlawful imprisonment can force a faction to go to war immediately, surely that's a very powerful tool of the player (or ai) because you can use it to destroy otherwise too powerful factions before they get too big for you to deal with. It seems to be a very good thing rather than a bad thing.

Further edit: Can you join rebellions that are ongoing in your realm? Both when they begin if you're not in the faction or/and after some time has passed.