CK3 Dev Diary #18 - Men-at-Arms, Mercenaries and CBs

CK3 Dev Diary #18 - Men-at-Arms, Mercenaries and CBs

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Afganitia

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So are you telling me, that after making a entire new game, winning defending wars is still useless?
It doesn't seem that hard to code that after winning a defensive war, you can enforce your existing claims on the defeated side. It's historically accurate and gameplay wise much better on what is seems to be a copy of all weakness of the ck2 system.

At leasr will we be able to claim all of our dejure claims in a a war?
 
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Granty

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So are you telling me, that after making a entire new game, winning defending wars is still useless?
It doesn't seem that hard to code that after winning a defensive war, you can enforce your existing claims on the defeated side. It's historically accurate and gameplay wise much better on what is seems to be a copy of all weakness of the ck2 system.

At leat we will be able to clainm all of our dejure claims in a a war?
Yep, this is much the same as what I've said in a few comments here. I'm really hoping that they'll change it, either before release, or soon afterwards, a bit like how Imperator: Rome was updated massively to strip out the mana systems that were in it at launch.
 

TheDarkMaster

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So are you telling me, that after making a entire new game, winning defending wars is still useless?
It doesn't seem that hard to code that after winning a defensive war, you can enforce your existing claims on the defeated side. It's historically accurate and gameplay wise much better on what is seems to be a copy of all weakness of the ck2 system.

At leat we will be able to clainm all of our dejure claims in a a war?
If nothing else, I'd like to see the option to declare a mutually offensive war as a defender within x months of a war starting, using one of your own CBs or declaring a target duchy.
 

Lordy's

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So are you telling me, that after making a entire new game, winning defending wars is still useless?
It doesn't seem that hard to code that after winning a defensive war, you can enforce your existing claims on the defeated side. It's historically accurate and gameplay wise much better on what is seems to be a copy of all weakness of the ck2 system.

At leat we will be able to clainm all of our dejure claims in a a war?
Pretty sad indeed. Can't we have a system with an actual peace deal negotiation (like EU4), where you can only demand provinces that you have a claim / dejure claim on. So with 100% warscore (full occupation, enemies armies destroyed or outmatched), you can get a lot of your claims pressed, if you only want 1 province, you need less warscore (like in CK2 - you only need to occupy the capital plus a few extra holdings and win battles). And in defensive wars you can obviously take things as well - if you have claims. Maybe with a slightly increased warscore cost per province.
Shouldn't be too hard and honestly I see no problems with a 'claim restricted' EU4 peace deal system.
 

Pied-Noir

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the 3d graphics for characters are horrible....even worse than ck2

makes me sad
They look okay (but not great) when they're shown full-size such as on character screens or event windows, but I agree that the small head-sized avatar windows look awful.
 

Jia Xu

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Yeah, and they'll be behind a pay wall, and limited by the design of the feudal system.
If you're so clairvoyant that you can so clearly see the future, then why are you wasting your time with us? You should be making millions gambling on sporting events or something.

I mean, I'm assuming you can see into the future. If not, then this post is a bitter overreaction. You don't know what future DLC will be and you don't know how the coding of the base game will limit anything. You're not one of the developers. You don't have some intimate knowledge of CK3's codebase.

When you say things like this, you make the entire community look bad. Some actual developer could read this post where you tell him/her exactly what can or cannot be done with the guts of a game you know nothing about. When you do this, the message being sent is that we're malcontents who shouldn't be taken seriously. Please be more considerate. Thank you.
 
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PDX-Nicou

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Hey everyone,

We understand that sometimes topics can be heated, but we would like to remind everyone to not flame one another.
Please stay respectful and constructive, even when disagreeing. Flaming doesn't help us the team reading your comments neither.
Thanks! :)
 

Zhetone

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If you're so clairvoyant that you can so clearly see the future, then why are you wasting your time with us? You should be making millions gambling on sporting events or something.

I mean, I'm assuming you can see into the future. If not, then this post is a bitter overreaction. You don't know what future DLC will be and you don't know how the coding of the base game will limit anything. You're not one of the developers. You don't have some intimate knowledge of CK3's codebase.

When you say things like this, you make the entire community look bad. Some actual developer could read this post where you tell him/her exactly what can or cannot be done with the guts of a game you know nothing about. When you do this, the message being sent is that we're malcontents who shouldn't be taken seriously. Please be more considerate. Thank you.
I have noticed there are quite a few people who just reply to threads with cynical assumptions and try to put down the devs/paradox/the game no matter what the topic is - it doesn't seem very constructive
 
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LordofLight

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From everything I've seen with posts, videos and even the clausewitz engine videos. The devs are doing the best they can with what they have, and what they have is time.

No, obviously they will not make a CK3 that has literally every single feature of CK2 in it unless you want a release date of 2030. And it's a bit odd to expect that in the first place.

People are also, for whatever reason, expecting the absolute worst of Paradox. Yes, their DLC policy is not exactly well liked by some. But it does result in a game getting a ton of support and features over the years. Instead of a sequel that barely has any new features.

Though honestly looking at the AAA Gaming industry it's not that surprising that people expect the worst. But I'd really give paradox the benefit of the doubt instead of searching for negativity in absolutely everything. Especially considering they do release a lot of features as free updates to the game.
 
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Andrzej I

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Though honestly looking at the AAA Gaming industry it's not that surprising that people expect the worst. But I'd really give paradox the benefit of the doubt instead of searching for negativity in absolutely everything. Especially considering they do release a lot of features as free updates to the game.
Both agreed and disagreed with this point here. For me (and I'd assume others!), my concern stems less out of the AAA Gaming industry and more out of recent Paradox releases (namely Imperator), where I'm seeing similar trends - streamlining mechanics, etc. I have no doubt that Paradox will make CK3 into an amazing game, I'm just cautious and a touch disappointed that it seems there has been little course-correction from Paradox since Imperator's release almost a year ago (or feedback on dev diaries spanning a fair bit further before then). The fact that the devs are responding and seeming receptive is promising, I just hope that some of our feedback can make it into the launch rather than further down the road. First impressions matter and all.
 
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Zhetone

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Both agreed and disagreed with this point here. For me (and I'd assume others!), my concern stems less out of the AAA Gaming industry and more out of recent Paradox releases (namely Imperator), where I'm seeing similar trends - streamlining mechanics, etc. I have no doubt that Paradox will make CK3 into an amazing game, I'm just cautious and a touch disappointed that it seems there has been little course-correction from Paradox since Imperator's release almost a year ago (or feedback on dev diaries spanning a fair bit further before then). The fact that the devs are responding and seeming receptive is promising, I just hope that some of our feedback can make it into the launch rather than further down the road. First impressions matter and all.
the idea of no course correction since imperator's release is complete nonsense and I have no idea how you can think that, considering they did a complete 180 on everything in Imperator that people slated. I swear a lot of people on here just want to be cynics
 

Andrzej I

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the idea of no course correction since imperator's release is complete nonsense and I have no idea how you can think that, considering they did a complete 180 on everything in Imperator that people slated. I swear a lot of people on here just want to be cynics
I think you misunderstand me. I don't mean no course-correction over on Imperator, where, as you quite rightly say, they've made a number of revisions over the year since its initial release. No, I mean no course-correction here, for Crusader Kings 3, learning lessons from Imperator's release. Instead, they seem to be making the same "mistake" Imperator went through a year ago.

Edit: And also, needless to say, I don't consider myself to be one of the harsher critics around, but I figured I'd post to provide some possible insight :)
 
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LordofLight

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more out of recent Paradox releases (namely Imperator)
Agreed there. Imperator is certainly better and they put a ton of work that is commendable. But imho still isn't fun and the launcher still has issues. But that's not to discuss here.

Just when CK3 comes out and the launcher issue is still there I'd bet. This is a hill I'm ready to die on.

I am hoping that while features are streamlined, and stuff is simplified. Depth is added.
 

vandevere

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Agreed there. Imperator is certainly better and they put a ton of work that is commendable. But imho still isn't fun and the launcher still has issues. But that's not to discuss here.

Just when CK3 comes out and the launcher issue is still there I'd bet. This is a hill I'm ready to die on.

I am hoping that while features are streamlined, and stuff is simplified. Depth is added.
A little logic/sanity in character interactions would be nice too...
 
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This is definitely an improvement over CK2. I’ll miss the good old days of mercenaries betraying my enemies and helping me, but this surely is a worthwhile trade off.
 

A.J.

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Ya! I'd like to say a few things too.

 

Jargoduk

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Aug 10, 2016
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Honestly, another dev diary on one of the most disappointing simplifications of the feudal system, combined with another reminder the war system is unchanged, is not what CK3 needs right now.
Unless piety and prestige is actually scarce (which it never was in CK2, but also this was a good thing) the cost of war is pointless.
Why does war cost piety, or prestige, or fame, or devotion? A won war should never cost anything so intangible, only a lost war, which was already a mechanic.
I agree. One of my biggest gripes with Ck2 is the sheer quantity of arbitrary costs for doing things. It limits the player in a game that's all about a huge sandbox.
 

Jia Xu

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Feb 27, 2010
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Why does war cost piety, or prestige, or fame, or devotion? A won war should never cost anything so intangible, only a lost war, which was already a mechanic.
Peasant communities don't like it when all of the working men are dragged off to war. If you are going to drag them off to war, they want to be assured it's a good war. Piety and Prestige, as currencies, represent political capital. They represent the good will you've built up with the church and with the ruling-class. When you ask them to support your wars, or anything else, you're using up some of that political capital. They represent you throwing your influence around to get the estates to support the propaganda of your war.
 

LordofLight

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Sep 6, 2015
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Peasant communities don't like it when all of the working men are dragged off to war
They also don't like the hundreds that die in them even if you win the war. Honestly they probably couldn't care less if you win or lose. Most the time it doesn't change much.

Maybe raising peasant levies should also be raising unrest.