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CK3 Dev Diary #17 - Governments, Vassal Management, Laws, and Raiding

Good afternoon, everyone. I’m Magne “Meneth” Skjæran. You might know me from the CK2 dev diaries or the Paradox Wikis, but for the last couple of years I’ve been working on CK3 as a programmer. Today we’re going to cover a number of topics closely related to government types: governments themselves, vassal management, laws, and raiding.

Let's start off with a familiar concept from CK2: governments. For the player, we have three playable governments: Feudal, Tribal, and Clan, which each have some significant differences in how they play.

The Feudal government type is based on European feudalism, and is heavily based around the idea of obligations: you owe service to your liege, and your liege owes you protection in return. It is the most common government form in the game. Feudal realms play pretty similarly to CK2, focusing on claims and inheritance more so than the other government forms.

A new addition in CK3 is Feudal Contracts. Every feudal vassal (except barons) has an individual contract with you, rather than obligations being set realm-wide. These contracts have three levels; Low, Medium, and High, with Medium being the default. High will provide more levies and tax at the cost of an opinion hit, while Low provides less but improves opinion. Higher levels are usually better (though perhaps not if you’re at risk of your vassals revolting), but cannot be imposed unilaterally.

You’ll need to have a hook on your vassal in order to increase their obligations unless you’re fine with all your vassals considering you a tyrant, but you can always lower them. As a result this means you can significantly increase your power if you’re able to obtain hooks on your vassals; perhaps a bit of judicious blackmail might be in order?

Feudal Contract.png

[Modifying a Feudal Contract]

Furthermore we have the Clan government form. This government is the rough equivalent of the Iqta government in CK2, though in CK3 it does have a more Feudal bent than it did previously.

The Clan government type is used by most Muslim realms. This government puts more emphasis on the family rather than the realm, with most vassals being members of your dynasty. Obligations are heavily based on opinion rather than being contractual, with happy vassals providing significantly more taxes and levies than unhappy ones. A happy family is a powerful family.

Clan governments also have access to the Clan Invasion casus belli, which can be used once in a lifetime at the highest level of Fame to invade a kingdom, providing a powerful boon for a well-established clan ruler.

Finally we have Tribal realms. Much like in CK2 these have their own Tribal holding type, providing more troops but less tax. Additionally, most tribals are able to go on raids, which you can read more about below. Tribal realms are unaffected by development, and cause non-tribal realms to have lower supply limits in their lands, making them a tougher nut to crack, but reducing their influence as the years drag on. Tribal realms also pay for men at arms using prestige rather than gold, allowing smaller realms to punch above their weight.

Tribal rulers base their obligations on levels of Fame rather than on contracts or opinion; the more famous your ruler is, the more troops and money your vassals will be willing to provide for your pursuits.

Finally, Tribal rulers have a once-in-a-lifetime Subjugation casus belli, allowing them to forcibly vassalize an entire realm.

As the game goes on, you can eventually reform out of Tribalism, becoming a Clan or Feudal realm instead.

Vassal Overview.png

[The vassal management tab]

To get an easy overview of your realm, we in CK3 have the Realm screen. Let’s start with the Vassals tab of this screen where all your vassals are shown. This gives you a clear overview of where your levies and taxes come from, who might be a threat to you, and allows you to renegotiate feudal contracts.

This is also where you change your crown authority (or tribal authority), which I’ll talk more about later in this dev diary.

Lastly, the screen shows your Powerful Vassals. Much like in CK2’s Conclave DLC, your realm will have some powerful vassals; these expect to be seated on the council, and will make their displeasure known if that is not the case.

Domain overview.png

[The Domain Tab]

Then we have the Domain tab. This lets you easily inspect your domain, showing where you’re earning money and levies, and where you can build more buildings. It also shows the level of development and control in the counties you personally hold, letting you easily tell where you can make improvements.

Finally we have the Succession tab. Due to being a bit of a work in progress, I’m afraid I can’t show you a picture of it right now. Here you can change your succession laws, see your heir(s), and check what titles, if any, you will lose when you die. If you hold any elective titles, you’ll be able to easily get to the election screen from here.

Now with all these mentions of laws, let's go through what laws exist. We’ve trimmed down the number of laws from CK2 as much of what used to be law is handled on a more individual level now, but some still remains.

Like in CK2, we have crown authority for Feudal and Clan realms, and tribal authority for Tribal realms. Higher levels of authority unlock mechanics like imprisonment (for tribals, the others start with it), title revocation, restrictions on internal wars, and heir designation. However, increasing these levels will make your vassals unhappy. Tribal authority is significantly less powerful than crown authority, representing how Tribal governments over time gradually got supplanted by Feudal and Clan governments.

Succession Laws.png

[Changing succession law]

Then there’s succession laws. To no one’s surprise, Gavelkind is making a return, though we’ve renamed it to Partition to make it more obvious what it actually means. This is the default succession form of most realms in both 867 and 1066.

For added fun, there’s now three variants of Partition. We’ve got regular Partition, which functions like Gavelkind in CK2; your realm gets split roughly equally between your heirs, and any heirs that end up a lower tier than your primary heir becomes a vassal.

However, many realms start with a worse form, especially in 867. This is Confederate Partition, which will also create titles of your primary title’s tier if possible. So if you as Norway have conquered all of Sweden but destroyed the kingdom itself, it will get recreated on your death so that your second heir becomes an independent ruler. Tribals are typically locked to this succession type, with some exceptions.

Finally we have an improved version of Partition: High Partition. Under High Partition your primary heir will always get at least half your titles, so it doesn’t matter if you’ve got 2 or 10 kids; your primary heir will get the same amount of land.

We’ve also done a lot of tweaks to the internal logic of who gets what titles, which tends to lead to far nicer splits than in CK2; border gore will of course still happen, but to a lesser degree than before.

Then we have the other succession forms. There’s Oldest Child Succession (replacing Primogeniture), Youngest Child Succession (replacing Ultimogeniture), and House Seniority. A notable difference from CK2’s Seniority Succession is that under House Seniority, the oldest eligible member of your house inherits, not of your entire dynasty.

We also have a number of variants on elective succession, ranging from Feudal Elective, to Princely Elective (HRE succession), and a handful of cultural variants. Each of these have different restrictions on who can vote, who can be elected, and how the AI will select who to vote for.

Additionally, we’ve got a full suite of gender laws, corresponding to the gender laws in CK2. These are: Male Only, Male Preference, Equal, Female Preference, and Female Only.

Finally, we have raiding. If you’re a Norwegian like me, sometimes you feel your Viking blood coursing through your veins, the noise of it drowning out everything else. Times like this, there’s only one solution: go on a raid.

Fans of Pagan gameplay in CK2 will be glad to hear that not only have we implemented raiding in CK3 as well, we’ve made some improvements to it to make it more fun to play with, and less unfun to be on the receiving end of.

The core system is very similar to CK2. If you’re a Pagan or Tribal ruler, you have the ability to raid other rulers’ lands. To do so you raise a raid army, and march or sail over to your target. Only the Norse can raid across sea; other raid armies will simply be unable to embark.

Rally Point.png

[Raising a raid army]

Once at your target your army will start looting the barony they’re in. This is a pretty quick process, but during it your army will be unable to move, preventing you from running away from any counter-raiding force. This change makes it a lot simpler to deal with raiders if you’ve got enough men and can raise them quickly enough, as the AI won’t just immediately run away.

Raid Lindisfarne.png

[A raid in progress]

While in CK2 raiding was done on a county level, in CK3 it is on a barony level. Another difference is that in CK3 raiding no longer uses the siege mechanics directly, but rather a similar system where things like siege engines do not have an impact since you’re raiding the countryside, not a heavily fortified castle.

Another significant change is that if you beat a raid army, you receive all the gold they’re carrying. This means that even if you cannot respond instantly to a raid, it is still very much worth it to beat up the raiders. Like in CK2, you also become immune to raiding by that enemy for several years.

Just like in CK2, a raid army is limited in how much loot it can carry based on the army size. Loot is deposited once the army is back in friendly lands, after which you might either disband or go raiding once more.

On the quality of life side, we now show on the map what provinces have already been raided when you have a raid army selected. This makes it easy to see what places to avoid. Hovering over a province will also tell you how much loot raiding it would provide.

Raid.png

[Northern England in its natural state]

That’s all for today, folks. Tune in next week to learn more about how war functions in Crusader Kings 3.
 
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The core system is very similar to CK2. If you’re a Pagan or Tribal ruler, you have the ability to raid other rulers’ lands. To do so you raise a raid army, and march or sail over to your target. Only the Norse can raid across sea; other raid armies will simply be unable to embark.

This has been changed, right? Estonians were raiding the Scandinavian coastline even before the viking age and the first ships with sails (700-750AD) from the Baltic sea region were discovered in Saaremaa, Estonia. + Saaremaa literally has a viking ship as its coat of arms in CK.

Snorri Sturluson relates in his Ynglinga saga how the Swedish king Ingvar (7th century), the son of Östen and a great warrior, who was forced to patrol the shores of his kingdom fighting pirates from Estonia. The saga speaks of his invasion of Estonia where he fell in a battle against the men of Estland who had come down with a great army. After the battle, King Ingvar was buried close to the seashore in Estonia and the Swedes returned home.[9]

 
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This has been changed, right? Estonians were raiding the Scandinavian coastline even before the viking age and the first ships with sails (700-750AD) from the Baltic sea region were discovered in Saaremaa, Estonia. + Saaremaa literally has a viking ship as its coat of arms in CK.

Snorri Sturluson relates in his Ynglinga saga how the Swedish king Ingvar (7th century), the son of Östen and a great warrior, who was forced to patrol the shores of his kingdom fighting pirates from Estonia. The saga speaks of his invasion of Estonia where he fell in a battle against the men of Estland who had come down with a great army. After the battle, King Ingvar was buried close to the seashore in Estonia and the Swedes returned home.[9]

And not only the Estonians, but also the Slavs:

"According to Swedish sources, the Novgorodians and their Karelian allies launched pirate raids against mainland Sweden during the 12th century."

"Although the Novgorodians took part in the Tsargrad expeditions of the 10th century and mounted pillaging raids to Finland in the 12th century (compare Swedish–Novgorodian Wars), the Ushkuyniks first appear in the historical record as an organized force in the 1320s. Arranged in squadrons which could number several thousand, the Ushkuyniks enjoyed the patronage of influential boyar families of Novgorod, who used them to demonstrate Novgorod's military clout to its neighbours and to advance its trade interests and influence along the Volga river and its Rusĭ or Rusy regions."
 
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And not only the Estonians, but also the Slavs:

"According to Swedish sources, the Novgorodians and their Karelian allies launched pirate raids against mainland Sweden during the 12th century."

"Although the Novgorodians took part in the Tsargrad expeditions of the 10th century and mounted pillaging raids to Finland in the 12th century (compare Swedish–Novgorodian Wars), the Ushkuyniks first appear in the historical record as an organized force in the 1320s. Arranged in squadrons which could number several thousand, the Ushkuyniks enjoyed the patronage of influential boyar families of Novgorod, who used them to demonstrate Novgorod's military clout to its neighbours and to advance its trade interests and influence along the Volga river and its Rusĭ or Rusy regions."

That's the 12th century and in relation to wars, also Novgorod was orthodox then so they wouldn't raid anyway. You cannot even compare some wartime 12th century raids of some Orthodox christians to a Nordic pagan culture which had been raiding and seafaring on a constant basis for 500+ years. Raiding and seafaring was ingrained into the Estonian culture even before Slavs had arrived to NW-Russia.

Also: The Republic prospered as the easternmost port of the Hanseatic League and its Slavic, Baltic and Finnic people were much influenced by the culture of the Viking-Varangians
 
That's the 12th century and in relation to wars, also Novgorod was orthodox then so they wouldn't raid anyway. You cannot even compare some wartime 12th century raids of some Orthodox christians to a Nordic pagan culture which had been raiding and seafaring on a constant basis for 500+ years. Raiding and seafaring was ingrained into the Estonian culture even before Slavs had arrived to NW-Russia.
It's not a matter of extent, but of historical attestation in itself. Point being that locking raiding behind culture is silly. Given the new culture system, Paradox should at the very least consider making one of the innovations to be raiding, though it'd be better for it to be more broadly available regardless of region/culture given that the AI can be designed as to not partake in raiding if certain conditions are not met. This way you can avoid too much historical implausibility on the part of the AI, yet maintain a higher degree of player freedom.

I also wouldn't make the assumption that somehow being Christian, Orthodox or otherwise, would mean that one couldn't raid. Vikings themselves continued raiding after the adoption of institutionalized Christianity within their Scandinavian homelands. Raiding died out not directly as a result of their communities becoming Christian (i.e. a formal abolishment of raiding on dogmatic grounds), but rather indirectly due to the fact that raiding was no longer profitable.


"The assimilation of the nascent Scandinavian kingdoms into the cultural mainstream of European Christendom altered the aspirations of Scandinavian rulers and of Scandinavians able to travel overseas, and changed their relations with their neighbours.

One of the primary sources of profit for the Vikings had been slave-taking. The medieval Church held that Christians should not own fellow Christians as slaves, so chattel slavery diminished as a practice throughout northern Europe. This took much of the economic incentive out of raiding, though sporadic slaving activity continued into the 11th century. Scandinavian predation in Christian lands around the North and Irish Seas diminished markedly.

The kings of Norway continued to assert power in parts of northern Britain and Ireland, and raids continued into the 12th century, but the military ambitions of Scandinavian rulers were now directed toward new paths."


As for the Slavs, they were not (solely) wartime raiding (though I'll concede that the historical attestations are towards the end of CK's timeline and/or soon after it):

"When Uzbek Khan died he deprived the Golden Horde and thus Russia of a firm hand able to control all political and trade affairs. With the Golden Horde's government in chaos in the mid-fourteenth century, Russian bandits by the thousands, who had previously been held somewhat in check by their princes and the punitive action of Mongol detachments, terrorized outlying Russian settlements and the ports along water routes to the Caspian Sea from Russia. In their raids against Nizhegorod (Nizhni Novgorod, Gorky) and other towns between 1366 and 1375, the Russians caught large numbers of Central Asian merchants by surprise, slaughtered them, and plundered their boats, carrying off many Slavs to the slave markets at Bulgar and Hajjitarkhan (Astrakhan)."

Allworth, Edward A. (1994-10-01). Central Asia: One Hundred Thirty Years of Russian Dominance, a Historical Overview (003 ed.). Durham: DUKE UNIV PR. pp. 21-22.
 
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Gavelkind specifically was mostly an English/Welsh/Irish thing. Similar systems existed elsewhere, but they weren't called that. So a different name is fine. Renaming primogeniture and agnatic/cognatic is bad though. Those terms are used very universally even today
Gavelkind was English. Ireland and Wales did not use Gavelkind. Remember r the English only came in the 5th century so it wouldn't make sence for pre-invasion to use that system
 
Gavelkind was English. Ireland and Wales did not use Gavelkind. Remember r the English only came in the 5th century so it wouldn't make sence for pre-invasion to use that system
Many things have been invented in several places independently. It's not like there are that many ways to divided an inheritance. The English name was later applied to things that already existed.
 
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Many things have been invented in several places independently. It's not like there are that many ways to divided an inheritance. The English name was later applied to things that already existed.
But it wasn't gavelkind. In gavelkind the land was split into equal slices for each son like what happend in carolingian empire. The kingdom would split up. In Ireland the kingdom stayed united. Only one became king through election, yes there was splitting of land but that was with the clan not just the sons.
 
The core system is very similar to CK2. If you’re a Pagan or Tribal ruler, you have the ability to raid other rulers’ lands. To do so you raise a raid army, and march or sail over to your target. Only the Norse can raid across sea; other raid armies will simply be unable to embark.

This has been changed, right? Estonians were raiding the Scandinavian coastline even before the viking age and the first ships with sails (700-750AD) from the Baltic sea region were discovered in Saaremaa, Estonia. + Saaremaa literally has a viking ship as its coat of arms in CK.

Snorri Sturluson relates in his Ynglinga saga how the Swedish king Ingvar (7th century), the son of Östen and a great warrior, who was forced to patrol the shores of his kingdom fighting pirates from Estonia. The saga speaks of his invasion of Estonia where he fell in a battle against the men of Estland who had come down with a great army. After the battle, King Ingvar was buried close to the seashore in Estonia and the Swedes returned home.[9]


I found an interesting article about this topic where different researchers comment about Finnic vikings being ignored in many contexts:
https://researchinestonia.eu/2020/06/09/baltic-finns-were-vikings-too-but-the-world-ignores-it/

It was a fascinating read.
 
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Late to the party but I just wanted to say that I think it's super cool that you have added Klingenberg and Würzburg as actual holdings!
I'm sure Aschaffenburg will be there too!
But what about the all known Lohr am Main (this is where I am from) or even Neustadt am Main?

Not gonna lie I'm super hyped for ck3 eventhough I'm not done with ck2 yet.

P.S. I gotta say after getting used to these Latin (?) Words primo, ultimo gesture and gravelkind, I will miss these.
 
@Meneth, does this mean that raiding is only unlocked by religion and/or government in CK3, and never by culture alone as in CK2?

I do hope so. :) Raiding was far too powerful a mechanic in CK2 IMO, so raiding cultures had a huge edge over non-raiding cultures.
 
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Does this mean that raiding is only unlocked by religion and/or government in CK3, and never by culture alone as in CK2?

I do hope so. :) Raiding was far too powerful a mechanic in CK2 IMO, so raiding cultures had a huge edge over non-raiding cultures.

Really? I was never able to get effective use out of it, but I am not an especially experienced player.
 
Really? I was never able to get effective use out of it, but I am not an especially experienced player.

Yeah, the financial benefits are enormous. It can also be used to get a head start on enemies before war. For example if you are planning to holy war or claim war someone you can go over with raiding troops and sack their holdings first. Since sacking a holding wipes out all garrison troops and levies in that holding, it becomes easy pickings for an immediately following war. This basically decides the entire war beforehand, unless your target is a very large realm like peak Holy Roman Empire or Byzantine Empire.

You can also use it to capture enemy artifacts and courtiers with bloodlines, though that's pretty much a crapshoot unless you're pagan (they get big bonuses to those sorts of things).
 
Yeah, the financial benefits are enormous. It can also be used to get a head start on enemies before war. For example if you are planning to holy war or claim war someone you can go over with raiding troops and sack their holdings first. Since sacking a holding wipes out all garrison troops and levies in that holding, it becomes easy pickings for an immediately following war. This basically decides the entire war beforehand, unless your target is a very large realm like peak Holy Roman Empire or Byzantine Empire.

You can also use it to capture enemy artifacts and courtiers with bloodlines, though that's pretty much a crapshoot unless you're pagan (they get big bonuses to those sorts of things).

Does the raiding force not count towards your total available troops (ie free troops)? I generally found that my attempts at raiding were generally squashed in their early phases. Do you just have to wait until their forces are busy with another war or something? If so why not just declare war then?
 
Does the raiding force not count towards your total available troops (ie free troops)? I generally found that my attempts at raiding were generally squashed in their early phases. Do you just have to wait until their forces are busy with another war or something? If so why not just declare war then?

It does count. You raise troops as normal, then you can toggle raiding on/off.

If you're unable to take them on and any raiding forces you sent over there get squashed then I'd recommend against declaring war on them, as they would get squashed just as easily with the raiding flag turned off. :)
 
I'm trying to understand how raiding will work with the new war system. There's been talk about how an army can't just beeline to the enemy's capital, one must siege land along the way. Now also adding the restriction of not being able to raid by boat it sounds like for non Norse cultures, raiding will be of limited use.
 
I'm trying to understand how raiding will work with the new war system. There's been talk about how an army can't just beeline to the enemy's capital, one must siege land along the way. Now also adding the restriction of not being able to raid by boat it sounds like for non Norse cultures, raiding will be of limited use.

I got the feeling that that is intentional. It does take care of the exploits I mentioned above, while still retaining its intended function (getting money). It definitely does limit its usefulness, but I think that's a good thing. It was just too overpowered in CK2. :(
 
I got the feeling that that is intentional. It does take care of the exploits I mentioned above, while still retaining its intended function (getting money). It definitely does limit its usefulness, but I think that's a good thing. It was just too overpowered in CK2. :(

I have concerns that raiding in CK3 won't be worth the effort unless one is playing as Norse (or as Kanem, which I play a lot in CK2). Usually the ones that can raid are tribal, and their neighbor's are generally tribal, which means the only ones they can effectively raid (w/o being able to raid by boat) will be tribal. There's not much income available if that's the case.

If tribal income from the realm hasn't changed significantly but the war/raiding system has it's going to really hurt tribal play. But I have no way of knowing if that's the case. I really hope the devs switch from leon to tribal pagan before launch.
 
I have concerns that raiding in CK3 won't be worth the effort unless one is playing as Norse (or as Kanem, which I play a lot in CK2). Usually the ones that can raid are tribal, and their neighbor's are generally tribal, which means the only ones they can effectively raid (w/o being able to raid by boat) will be tribal. There's not much income available if that's the case.

I agree with what you're saying, yet with the exception of removing boat raiding for non-Norse, isn't that pretty much the same as it was in CK2? The majority of tribals did not have many opportunities to raid anyone except their neighbors. Most of them were landlocked, and even those who weren't did not have access to very many ships (unless you built them up bigtime).
 
I agree with what you're saying, yet with the exception of removing boat raiding for non-Norse, isn't that pretty much the same as it was in CK2? The majority of tribals did not have many opportunities to raid anyone except their neighbors. Most of them were landlocked, and even those who weren't did not have access to very many ships (unless you built them up bigtime).

I suppose but conceptually (admittedly I never played those realms much so never tried it) one could march their armies to feudal lands and raid there. I don't know how viable that would be in CK2 but it sounds virtually impossible in Ck3.