CK3 Community Title Project and Character Name Packs.

[Necrochar]

Yeah, someone assigned me to merge it.

If you meant that you were listed as an assignee. Just note that, An assignee doesn't necessary mean you have to merge them. It signifies you are working on that branch. Now I don't know whether Gib asked you to merge them, But please be careful next time. Especially with the fixes branch. I was in middle of fixing an issue.

 

[Uebergold]

I got a question. What about the German place names? I got nice sources and since I am German myself I could contribute very well.

 

[Viridianus]

I got a question. What about the German place names? I got nice sources and since I am German myself I could contribute very well.

That's an interesting question. The (obsolete) German culture is supposed to correspond to Middle High German in requested cultures; I don't know why for this particular culture @TheGib770 chose not to include it on Main Titles despite several discussions (while some other obsolete cultures are in).

If you mean Central Germanic more generally, sure - collaborate with @Urkaun.

 

[Palfouri]

*snip*

Well, as you ended the post, it's hard to come up with a consistent scheme because only one of the "periods" has so many attested placenames, which is why I've tried to use Domesday as a base that's augmented by "Norman" works. I think you've probably put a lot more thought into it than I have so maybe you can correct me, but I've assumed that while Domesday is a great source for Normanesque forms of English placenames, it's not necessarily "Norman" or trying to render placenames in a form recognizable as such since I don't know how assured it is all the scribes responsible were Norman to begin with.. My main reason for favoring Wace is that this is someone I can be reasonably sure is writing "Norman" hence why I favor his placenames, but if you think both sources are equally represenative of Norman I'd have to reassess my opinion.

To your Norfolk example I wonder how much of that is really an example of evolution of the language between DB and Wace, as many "North" placenames in DB also drop the thorn entirely (for example, both modern Northwich and Norwich appear in DB as "Norwic/uic"). Obviously I'm not doubting the language changed in those 100 years but I do wonder how many supposed differences are really just scribal decisions or mistakes. I think I've tried to be consistent in prioritizing the placename sources in the manner I mentioned but it does get kind of messy.

 

[TheGib770]

That's an interesting question. The (obsolete) German culture is supposed to correspond to Middle High German in requested cultures; I don't know why for this particular culture @TheGib770 chose not to include it on Main Titles despite several discussions (while some other obsolete cultures are in).

If you mean Central Germanic more generally, sure - collaborate with @Urkaun.

German is completely obsolete, no historic characters use the generic german culture unlike roman and frankish.

BTW if you wanted to help on the steam page for aiding with bug reports, you'll need to add me as a friend so I can label you as developer.

 

[TheGib770]

Forgot to add, I've been working on a personal mod for improving the accuracy of election types and adding other elective monarchies. If you happen to know the electors' names of the Haute Cour of Jerusalem you can add it to the sheet under Outremer.

It's been a side project, I am too deep in researching. Trying to get back into doing the council titles soon.

 

[Necrochar]

For culture group with very few recorded information like the Mongols for example, I would suggest to include a "Default" column or something, Since I'm pretty sure most of the names are going to be the same across the cultures maybe except for the culture name and its collective form.

 

[Viridianus]

German is completely obsolete, no historic characters use the generic german culture unlike roman and frankish.

Shouldn't cause a compatibility issue though.

BTW if you wanted to help on the steam page for aiding with bug reports, you'll need to add me as a friend so I can label you as developer.

Sent a request.

For culture group with very few recorded information like the Mongols for example, I would suggest to include a "Default" column or something

That's part of a more general question of what do we do with anachronistic (Serbian/Bosnian, Mongol/Buryat) or maybe not anachronistic but undocumented or poorly documented language-wise (Serbian/Croatian, Mongol/Oirat) splits. The first ones are supposed to have everything except culture name and culture collective identical, but what about the second? And, more disturbingly, it can happen between groups (imagine Middle English and Norman having poorer documentation; imagine making mod for 2nd century AD and trying to distinguish Vlach vs. Vulgar Latin; for a more real situation, Frankish vs. Central Germanic should shoot something like this).

 

[Viridianus]

Updates on Master Sheet:

1. RaG sheet now describes what you can find in Contributors sheet;
2. The latter is induced with some minor notes;
3. Title colouring for all of e_persia, e_carpathia, e_france, e_spain is in; e_maghreb goes next (for those who've only joined recently: I color the rows according to 00_landed_titles.txt to designate levels, mostly not writing the titles in (except for empires, kingdoms, and some randomly chosen ones not to lose myself entirely); this creates a structure which can later be filled from localization files);
4. Assyrian/Syriac "officially" resolved, see discussion on Contributors sheet.

 

[Necrochar]

That's part of a more general question of what do we do with anachronistic (Serbian/Bosnian, Mongol/Buryat) or maybe not anachronistic but undocumented or poorly documented language-wise (Serbian/Croatian, Mongol/Oirat) splits. The first ones are supposed to have everything except culture name and culture collective identical, but what about the second? And, more disturbingly, it can happen between groups (imagine Middle English and Norman having poorer documentation; imagine making mod for 2nd century AD and trying to distinguish Vlach vs. Vulgar Latin; for a more real situation, Frankish vs. Central Germanic should shoot something like this).

I think cultural groups are more an abstraction for the mechanical purposes of the game, it does not do justice to cultures that are closely linked by geographical proximity rather than origin. So, I have absolutely no problems with titles being same across cultural groups, if there is valid historical instance to support it.

Poorly documented cultures are a big problem, because most of the poorly documented cultures are like that because they never had a strong independent empire/kingdom within their realm. Maybe you can find one reference somewhere to some ancient king, but then are you correct in applying a single instance to depict the culture across centuries.

I think our best shot is to fill up cells with what we assume to be correct, even if it means borrowing from an neighboring culture and not fret too much about it. I'm sure once the mod releases there will be people who would point out any oversights on our side.

 

[Viridianus]

I think our best shot is to fill up cells with what we assume to be correct, even if it means borrowing from an neighboring culture and not fret too much about it. I'm sure once the mod releases there will be people who would point out any oversights on our side.

Yeah, obviously; this is more a problem for the technical side of your "default column" suggestion rather than its concept.

 

[Necrochar]

Yeah, obviously; this is more a problem for the technical side of your "default column" suggestion rather than its concept.

Sorry, I misunderstood your comments, Use default for the same cultural group, if it is across groups i think copy pasting them again is the solution. A little irritating, but better to be safe than sorry

 

[Viridianus]

2 more thousand of empty rows added and formatted, now we have 10294 rows (10282 non-technical); fun fact - the rows had ended right before d_tunis.

 

[Farabi]

I've added a few comments onto a bunch of Arab titles for suggested alternatives if you want to take a look. I can provide sources for these if necessary.

 

[Uebergold]

That's an interesting question. The (obsolete) German culture is supposed to correspond to Middle High German in requested cultures; I don't know why for this particular culture @TheGib770 chose not to include it on Main Titles despite several discussions (while some other obsolete cultures are in).

If you mean Central Germanic more generally, sure - collaborate with @Urkaun.

Ok, cool. And yes, I forgot. I already saw in the game files that german, at least for now, is obsolete.

In that case I mean Saxon, Franconian etc.

 

[Viridianus]

e_arabia and e_maghreb are in; I think this will be all for now as for title colouring.

@Farabi - agree on every of your commentaries there.

 

[Necrochar]

Ok, cool. And yes, I forgot. I already saw in the game files that german, at least for now, is obsolete.

In that case I mean Saxon, Franconian etc.

Do you want to enter german culture names in the "Empire through Baronies" sheet for German places?
The central_german culture group exist,
The German empire also is included in the rows but is only populated with kingdom name with gaps for other tiers,
You can populate those by referring the game files for their specific name, and the continue editing cultural name like usual,
But please ask @Viridianus if its okay to edit those rows as he is the one maintaining the sheet.

 

[Uebergold]

Do you want to enter german culture names in the "Empire through Baronies" sheet for German places?
The central_german culture group exist,
The German empire also is included in the rows but is only populated with kingdom name with gaps for other tiers,
You can populate those by referring the game files for their specific name, and the continue editing cultural name like usual,
But please ask @Viridianus if its okay to edit those rows as he is the one maintaining the sheet.

I could do that, of course.

@Viridianus Are you ok with this ?

I could either start later or tomorrow because right now I am still reviewing some Norman title names for k_england.

 

[Viridianus]

I am more than OK with filling in the data from localization files; as for names for the cultures, I again suggest you collaborate with our main expert on Central Germanic, @Urkaun.

 

[Necrochar]

Hey guys,
I just wrote a python script to read all the existing baronies in the 00_landed_titles.txt file and save it in a `.csv` format. File uploaded in Github
@Viridianus I think you might like this, I think you can copy paste this into the EtB sheet. But it is in the format of like "e_britannia" and so on. I'll try to see if i can remove that by scripting the localisation too (might be a little tricky)
Sorry I couldn't do it sooner xP.

Edit : Ignores all the special titles and starts from e_britannia from scripting reasons (I was too lazy to assign special cases for those)