CK3 and it’s Clausewitz game engine showcases the deep potential for an amazing BattleTech Grand Strategy computer game

[Prussian Havoc]

Hi ALL!

(It has been too long since I’ve been able to contribute to our BATTLETECH forum. I’ve started Graduate School and just plain ran out of time, opportunity and energy to much gaming these past months. But it’s good to be on Winter break and back on the forum for a while. : )

And... back on topic!

CK3 is a phenomenal game. I’ve got 110-hours into it but was starting from scratch, so I had no CK2 frame of reference to help me figure the mechanics out.

The gist of what fascinates me about CK3 is how well the game led me through a 150-years of a 600-year odyssey for the Kingdom of Wessex on Hard Mode. The game is set up to “smooth out the rough edges” for a novice without obvious and immersion breaking cheats like the Civilization series relies on. And all the while I was playing my first successful turn as 9th century Wessex, I could readily sense the depth and immersive FUN that was always rolling just below the surface of my gameplay. Then as gameplay gave me pause and interest to dive deep into one or another mechanism, I chased down forum posts, industry articles, guides, etc.

Very FUN, very addictive and very much a game that has kept me up to 3 or 4am these past 4 or so nights.


And so very much of this could serve as the base of a game spanning a similar 600-year span of Big Stompy BattleTech action from the BattleMech being invented in 2439 with the Mackie up through the Clan Invasion.

And the BattleTech timeline and franchise is detailed, deep and expansive enough to support such a Grand Strategy tapestry of Big Stompy action.

BattleTech has long been compared to a Game of Thrones set among 2000 star systems...
well CK3 puts the Clausewitz game engine through its paces and it performs brilliantly. It would take a dedicated devTeam a couple years or more to do justice to such a challenge but the results would be simply Mechtastic in great big Altas-sized portions!

Anyone else been playing CK3 and have some thoughts on how well (or not) the Clausewitz game engine could breath Life into a BattleTech Grand Strategy game that would span a half dozen or so centuries?

 

[MarkDey]

(It has been too long since I’ve been able to contribute to our BATTLETECH forum. I’ve started Graduate School and just plain ran out of time, opportunity and energy to much gaming these past months. But it’s good to be on Winter break and back on the forum for a while. : )

Best of luck with grad school - It's good to see your posts again!

CK3 is a phenomenal game. I’ve got 110-hours into it but was starting from scratch, so I had no CK2 frame of reference to help me figure the mechanics out.
...
Anyone else been playing CK3 and have some thoughts on how well (or not) the Clausewitz game engine could breath Life into a BattleTech Grand Strategy game that would span a half dozen or so centuries?

I've heard great things about CK3, although I haven't tried it out myself yet. Sounds like it would be a great mod / new game!

 

[Kereminde]

Grand strategy and BattleTech are two things I'd love to see in the works, but I've never really played a GRAND strategy game. Only 4X (explore, expand, exploit, exterminate) games and the latest of which was Stellaris. Which I never got to finish before numerous patches and a couple DLC purchases had me go "maybe I should start over..." before I'd even gotten halfway through what I feel was the game. (Pretty good expansion and empire to just restart, or so I thought, but one of my friends who did play it before told me "you are in no way prepared for endgame".)

Even when it comes to board games, well, 'Eclipse' is the game of choice and even then it's still close to the 4X framework. (I cannot say how fun it is to play if you like the classic Master of Orion games...)

I think, but this is just personal opinion, what people enjoy about the BattleTech IP might wind up getting lost to "pull back" to grand strategy levels. Losing the personal, on-the-battlefield touch could drain some of the fun out for a lot of people.

... also, nobody would want to play the Capellans. It's like being told you're stuck with Italy when playing Diplomacy.

 

[MarkDey]

... also, nobody would want to play the Capellans. It's like being told you're stuck with Italy when playing Diplomacy.

Unless you're starting the game during the expansion out from Terra? I could see a few scenario / game starting points.

 

[Eximar]

... also, nobody would want to play the Capellans. It's like being told you're stuck with Italy when playing Diplomacy.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people actually like the Capellans.

 

[Kereminde]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people actually like the Capellans.

I mean, every faction has their die-hard fans, that's part of BT. (Yes, even the Free Worlds League. The Hufflepuff of the Inner Sphere. The "also-ran".)

 

[Kovax]

The FWL has a LOT of fans, at least compared to my old favorites, the Oberon Confederation. The FWL even existed for a lot longer in the game universe, breaking up and (mostly) reforming, rather than being simply erased from the map as a minor footnote to the Clan Invasion...."Oh, by the way, your faction doesn't exist any more."

I'd love to see a "Succession Wars" equivalent GSG, using Paradox's Clausewitz engine and a lot more depth than the old board game could properly convey with just cardboard counters and limited book-keeping. Why conquer a measly planet when you can take over the known universe? Bonus points if the game allows you to play out a few of the battles in tactical mode, as per HBS' BattleTech.

 

[Kereminde]

Bonus points if the game allows you to play out a few of the battles in tactical mode, as per HBS' BattleTech.

I can hear Mitch now: "Out of scope!"

 

[jss78]

I haven't played CK3, but I did play the hell out of Europa Universalis 1, 2, and 3 back in the day.

I'd love a game like this, however I see a problem where this'd be a very niche game, perhaps prohibitively so:

• In terms of old BT/MW players, you'd try to sell them a game where they can't actually control the mech (be it in first-person, or turn-based or real-time strategy). I think a considerable part of the old player base would walk out at this stage.
• In terms of new players, you'd have the challenge of convincing them to play this instead of something in an already familiar setting (e.g., Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron, Crusader Kings)

In short, who'd be playing this?

I think one way to pitch this to a developer is to FIRST sell them on the idea of an interstellar-scale grand strategy. And THEN sell them on using the BT universe, which gives them a rich setting without having to develop one from scratch. Even though the setting would be unfamiliar to most of the player base needed to make the game financially viable, it'd still have that "lived in" and rich feel, and would feel compelling and deep even if first unfamiliar.

 

[Cyttorak001]

It's been a while since Paradox bought Battletech. I'm just wondering if they have any plans for it at all, or did they just buy out a competitor?

 

[Kereminde]

It's been a while since Paradox bought Battletech. I'm just wondering if they have any plans for it at all, or did they just buy out a competitor?

First, they bought Harebrained Schemes - not BattleTech itself. Trying to buy that means someone would have to deal with Topps, Microsoft, Catalyst, and some other people. (BT Licensing issues, yay!)

Second? Either way, we're neither entitled nor should we expect to be told the inner workings. There WAS a project the HBS people alluded to, but also were adamant about not talking about it yet. Then 2020 happened, so honestly I'm not surprised this year's been "radio silent".

 

[Jamey]

I’d rather see a HOI4 basis for BATTLETECH, as that would really support a planet scale war game.

If I were to use CK as the basis, I’d want it to be a very feudal game, where its designed for you to work your way up from ruling a small part of a planet to ruling a full planet of your own. To make that work, a lot of work would have to be done to improve vassal gameplay.

 

[LongRange]

Is CK3 worth a look? I tried XCOM2 after some references on this site and kept getting my butt kicked in the early game so haven’t pursued it much. Looking for something over the holidays.

 

[Panzer-Killer]

...
I tried XCOM2 after some references on this site and kept getting my butt kicked in the early game so haven’t pursued it much.
...

That's because even if XCOM2, as well as its spiritual sequel Phoenix Point, is a very excellent turn-based tactical-strategic game, it's conceived as a race against time to stop the Doomsday Clock, so you can't bide your time building your tactical and strategic asset numbers and power until you become an unstoppable force., but instead you're forced to choose every time what you think will be the best strategical choice in the long run in order to win, as you can't follow al leads at the same time.

But their both wonderful games, with a wonderful story line and playthrough.

 

[LongRange]

Thanks. Maybe I’ll give it another try over the holidays. Burning off vacation before the EOY leaves lots of time to work out techniques.

XCOM learning curve seems very steep. I read where some have restarted multiple times when learning a lesson put them at too much of a disadvantage to go forward.

BT was a little steep, but I had some understanding of the concepts from playing earlier MechWarrior and MechCommander games. BT, IMO, blended the best parts of both of those. I do wish Paradox had put out one more expansion to move into the Clan invasion with Clan Tech only available through salvage and only useable in Clan chassIs. Maybe as one or two mini-campaigns like HM.

 

[Jamey]

Is CK3 worth a look? I tried XCOM2 after some references on this site and kept getting my butt kicked in the early game so haven’t pursued it much. Looking for something over the holidays.

CK3 is a solid game, but the components of its simulation didn’t interact well when it was first released (e.g. role playing a loyal Catholic required praying to RNGesus and hoping that Catholicism didn’t utterly collapse under heresies because most tools for dealing with neighboring heretics caused more heresies).

The patch notes indicate improvements targeted at a lot of the worst points, but I’ve moved on from it to other games (at least for now).

All of that said, you can definitely get some good hours of fun gaming out of it. I’m just annoyed that CK3 released with exactly the sorts of problems that have been frustrating me with other Paradox games.

 

[Jade_Rook]

XCOM definitely has a harsher learning curve. Ones of the things Battletech did right was making it more possible to recover from losses. Losing a squad in XCOM can result in a slow death spiral that is hard to pull out of. Still, it is one of my favorite games and worth figuring out.

I think I did end up cheating adding a mod to increase the turn limit by 2 or 3. Trying to cross the entire map, complete objectives, and evac, in 4 turns was a little too much for me. With just a little extra time I was still under pressure, but felt like the objectives were actually winnable.

 

[Kereminde]

I think I did end up cheating adding a mod to increase the turn limit by 2 or 3. Trying to cross the entire map, complete objectives, and evac, in 4 turns was a little too much for me. With just a little extra time I was still under pressure, but felt like the objectives were actually winnable.

Or just "eject" units which don't have anything valuable installed in the head