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schwarherz

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Great MOD I love it! You guys do a fantastic job with this. :D

I was wondering if you could make this compatible with the time traveling amazons one?

Any compatibility would have to be done on their end, not ours. CK2+ is a major overhaul and, as such, would be too difficult to adapt to be compatible with other mods. Thus it falls to the other mods to be compatible with us either by default or via compatch.
 

Gagik

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I just had another instance in the current version of overthrow liege and independence faction wars resulting in the entire kingdom falling apart after the rebels win. The cause of this is the fact when those types of wars are won by rebels every vassal gets the option of sticking by their liege or going it alone. While this is all fine in good in a situation where say a pagan king loses to an indie faction of catholics that the one or two that stayed neutral would go free on a pagan defeat it makes 0 sense if vassals who dont completely hate their liege or in the case i just saw 2/3rds of pagan jorvik going free just to be eatten right after by mercia no sooner after the war ended.

Can there be somethin added that makes vassals with opinions of just for starters -10 or better of having less of a chance of bailing ( higher the opinion even less) can even add in some traits that add +/- that chance to bail. But more importantly have them stick around if their top liege shares there religion and there completely surrounded by another relgious group ( example assume all of russia is orthodox except for kiev whos ruled by one but all his vassals are slavic. 2 vassals rebel rest stay out of it rebels win the slavs that remained neutral would more than likely stick with their liege since going indie would mean certain death by holy wars).

I think its not such a big problem, this mechanics works well in my opinion, the price of loosing a civil war by decentralised, weak realm should be severe (just like this), vassals dont have to hate their liege to have the desire to "break free" and become independent, and they have the chance to do so the moment the realm and the ruler are in the weakest condition (so during lost civil war). I have only seen one or two really serious destructions of the realms caused by this mechanics, not to mention new / next rulers of weakened realms often reqonquer lost territories. Still, adding a lesser / higher chance of separation based on opinion might be a good improvement.

E: Also, the process of the Christian reconquista in Spain should be much slower...will try to figure out how (I have thought of making limitations who can use the holy war CB and maybe limit them to once per lifetime? Even the conquest of the Taifa of Toledo took decades)

E2: There could be a 'Declare yourself the Caliph of al-Andalus' mechanic allowing you to subjugate the local rulers to represent the Almoravid conquest of Andalusia.

To be honest I dont think E: is a good idea - maybe it could improve thinhs in one way or another according to specific direction (for example who should win and how long should it take him to win), but for me it would make things too "scripted" and arbitrary designed - I mean, I think unlike PB or other mods, CK2+ always avoided giving handicaps or setting special mechanics so that things would surely go acording to specific scenario (for example slow reqonquista of Iberia), It was rather totally random and "alternative", and thanks to that you were always sure that each situation and political balance will be unique and different from another. Giving requirements, special CBs, nerfes or other addons to specific realms would destroy part of CK2+ base advantages, that's just my opinion

As for E2: - which date you have chosen for start? Because, again I don't think there is serious need of special intervention on Iberian Peninsula, Almoravids very often manage to conquer all other smaller emirates (I think they also often have strong claims on some of Andalusia de jure lands) and the balance there between catholics / muslims can really be different each game.
 

schwarherz

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Persian and Kurdish Muslim leaders seem to be switching to Zoroastrianism far more frequently than they should.
It's probably because, in certain starts, some counties are still Zoroastrian and it's possible the the muslim RA dropped low enough to trigger the option for the religion switch decision.
 

dskod1

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It is stated in the first thread that this mod is compaitable with all crusader kings 2 mods.

Does this include the CK2 to EU4 converter?

sorry if this seems like a dumb question
 

schwarherz

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It is stated in the first thread that this mod is compaitable with all crusader kings 2 mods.

Does this include the CK2 to EU4 converter?

sorry if this seems like a dumb question

Yes it does. And don't worry it's not a dumb question, though it is covered in the changelog.
 

dskod1

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Cool thanks, what about if I add the compatible mods as well as this one. Will it still be compatible or am I going to get issues?
 

schwarherz

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Cool thanks, what about if I add the compatible mods as well as this one. Will it still be compatible or am I going to get issues?

Sorry you're confusing me a bit. you're using Mod as dlc and also as user modification. We're compatible with all DLC but for obvious reasons not all user modifications. The ones on the compatible mod list should work but are not guaranteed to be up to date or compatible with eachother.
 

dskod1

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Sorry, I mean would the savegame still be compatible with the converter. I think I have an answer though so no woriees
 

schwarherz

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Sorry, I mean would the savegame still be compatible with the converter. I think I have an answer though so no woriees

The converter is a DLC so yes it's compatible.
 

Kalista

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I think its not such a big problem, this mechanics works well in my opinion, the price of loosing a civil war by decentralised, weak realm should be severe (just like this), vassals dont have to hate their liege to have the desire to "break free" and become independent, and they have the chance to do so the moment the realm and the ruler are in the weakest condition (so during lost civil war). I have only seen one or two really serious destructions of the realms caused by this mechanics, not to mention new / next rulers of weakened realms often reqonquer lost territories. Still, adding a lesser / higher chance of separation based on opinion might be a good improvement.

Primary problem I keep seeing is realms breaking apart into a million pieces while sitting right next to a religious enemy. Like you said I to for the most part don't see as huge of a problem of realms breaking since in a generation or two there mostly back together. The problems begin to happen when say Catholic Leon shatters into a million small pieces right next to a very large, very dangerous united moorish state that is more than happy to gobble up most of it since as smaller pieces they will put up far less resistance than as a unified ( tho disgrunted) kingdom. Other problem with it we seem to be in agreement that vassals who didn't have a poor opinion of their liege shouldn't jump at the chance of being independant ( tho i believe certain traits should make that more likely such as an envious ambitious duke would want out providing he isn't next to a religious enemy who would take him down fast. )
 

schwarherz

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Primary problem I keep seeing is realms breaking apart into a million pieces while sitting right next to a religious enemy. Like you said I to for the most part don't see as huge of a problem of realms breaking since in a generation or two there mostly back together. The problems begin to happen when say Catholic Leon shatters into a million small pieces right next to a very large, very dangerous united moorish state that is more than happy to gobble up most of it since as smaller pieces they will put up far less resistance than as a unified ( tho disgrunted) kingdom. Other problem with it we seem to be in agreement that vassals who didn't have a poor opinion of their liege shouldn't jump at the chance of being independant ( tho i believe certain traits should make that more likely such as an envious ambitious duke would want out providing he isn't next to a religious enemy who would take him down fast. )

If we were to take out the potential for a realm shattering like that, borders would rarely, if ever, move more than a province or two without a large scale war making the game, frankly, dull. As for vassals, they tend to prefer to be independant. Perhaps upper threshold (80-90+) and those with the content trait would stay vassalized (maybe) but by-and-large they prefer independance.
 

Kalista

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If we were to take out the potential for a realm shattering like that, borders would rarely, if ever, move more than a province or two without a large scale war making the game, frankly, dull. As for vassals, they tend to prefer to be independant. Perhaps upper threshold (80-90+) and those with the content trait would stay vassalized (maybe) but by-and-large they prefer independance.
The main thing I'm trying to get at is the suicidal vassals going independant next to a very large religious enemy who in the matter of a few years will own a large chunk of that former kingdom that just blew up not that kingdoms blow up at all. France for example turning into 10 dukes and 5 counts from a revolt is fine and nice to see the power struggle after to reform a kingdom. On the other hand watching a small well timed rebellion of Spain turn into 5 dukes and 3 counts who as soon as they peace out of there war are torn apart by < insert muslim blob in iberia> when it should be clear to all the parties involed that going independant = certain death is the issue I'm having with. I've lost count how many times now I've seen hungary form go catholic have a war where only a quarter of his vassals go for independance ( rest stayed neutral but are providing next to no troops for the king) win the war now everyones independant for catholics and orthodox to steam roll in less than 10 years.

The fact that realms DO explode into chaos has and always will be one of the things I love about this mod and why I've been playing it since the days it was known as wizck. All I'm asking for is alittle better logic for the ai so they aren't commiting suicide by going independant when even a simple peasant in one of their towns knows there doomed to be holy war'ed to death the moment they try (Now if said ruler has the lunatic trait it would make sense if he did it :p )
 

schwarherz

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The main thing I'm trying to get at is the suicidal vassals going independant next to a very large religious enemy who in the matter of a few years will own a large chunk of that former kingdom that just blew up not that kingdoms blow up at all. France for example turning into 10 dukes and 5 counts from a revolt is fine and nice to see the power struggle after to reform a kingdom. On the other hand watching a small well timed rebellion of Spain turn into 5 dukes and 3 counts who as soon as they peace out of there war are torn apart by < insert muslim blob in iberia> when it should be clear to all the parties involed that going independant = certain death is the issue I'm having with. I've lost count how many times now I've seen hungary form go catholic have a war where only a quarter of his vassals go for independance ( rest stayed neutral but are providing next to no troops for the king) win the war now everyones independant for catholics and orthodox to steam roll in less than 10 years.

The fact that realms DO explode into chaos has and always will be one of the things I love about this mod and why I've been playing it since the days it was known as wizck. All I'm asking for is alittle better logic for the ai so they aren't commiting suicide by going independant when even a simple peasant in one of their towns knows there doomed to be holy war'ed to death the moment they try (Now if said ruler has the lunatic trait it would make sense if he did it :p )

I see your point and I'll see if there's anything we can do about it...I'm a little concerned about the difficulty level involved in such a thing though. Also some rulers are just blind to the obvious, so we'd have to make it so a low diplo and/or learning ruler would go independant as well, and there may not be a modifier for "strong neighbor posed to eat us alive"
 

Kalista

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I see your point and I'll see if there's anything we can do about it...I'm a little concerned about the difficulty level involved in such a thing though. Also some rulers are just blind to the obvious, so we'd have to make it so a low diplo and/or learning ruler would go independant as well, and there may not be a modifier for "strong neighbor posed to eat us alive"
I understand that seeing doux derpington the II rebel in anatolla when hes right next to a mega abbasid blob happen here and there isn't a big deal to me since well like the rest of us not all rulers are the brighest bulbs in the lightsocket. I also understand that getting it to work ( let alone the way you want it to) will be difficult and I do appreciate you taking the time to address my concerns.
 

Nivve

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I understand that seeing doux derpington the II rebel in anatolla when hes right next to a mega abbasid blob happen here and there isn't a big deal to me since well like the rest of us not all rulers are the brighest bulbs in the lightsocket. I also understand that getting it to work ( let alone the way you want it to) will be difficult and I do appreciate you taking the time to address my concerns.

I don't think that's very hard to code into it. Simply a creative use of 'num_of_realm_counties' and scoping to the neighbouring realm. But is it part of the cb or a separate event afterwards?
 

Kalista

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Part thats making most/all of the realm go independant when there not apart of the independence war ( happens in depose liege as well) is an event after the rebels win.
 
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