CK2Plus - Balance improvements, more kingdoms and empires, more ambitions and plots

[James_Manring]

It won't happen for house arrest and it only happens if the prisoner dies as a result of falling ill in the dungeon. You even get an event telling you your prisoner is ill that allows you to put them in house arrest.

It has happened for house arrest for me on a consistent basis.

The event is for when they complain. I have never seen an event for when the prisoner becomes ill. That is probably because I consistently put them under house arrest when the complaint event pops up. Basically what you are telling me is how I think it should work, but I am telling you in practice it is not working that way. If that means it is not working as designed then consider this a bug report.

I am using 1.01 hotfix 1.

 

[James_Manring]

Arrest the Templars - Working as designed?

I have been playing a game as Norse Swedish culture and control almost all of Scandinavia. I am now getting the decision to start the plot to Arrest the Templars. Is this working as designed? I do not have any Templar holdings in my lands and they are not of Norse religion. I should not have any motive or means to enact anything to do with the Templars.

Additionally, are they the only Holy Order that has a decision for Arresting them? Does that make sense? I mean... in theory because of how the game operates any Holy Order could become powerful enough within a realm that a King would want to seize their lands. Perhaps a Decision for every Holy Order should be created, but with the prerequisite of being the same Religion Group as them. Also, perhaps they should have a certain amount of holdings within a De Jure Kingdom before the King can be bothered with this matter. Can an incremental value check on a variable be used for this with a yearly recalculation so as not to cause too much of a strain on the engine?

 

[Haramir]

I really enjoyed you mod and playing CK2 only with it since two weeks, the levy balanced is well done between the king and the dukes

 

[zeress]

The event is for when they complain. I have never seen an event for when the prisoner becomes ill. That is probably because I consistently put them under house arrest when the complaint event pops up. Basically what you are telling me is how I think it should work, but I am telling you in practice it is not working that way. If that means it is not working as designed then consider this a bug report.

I am using 1.01 hotfix 1.

A lot of the times they end up dieing before the event can trigger to warn me about it (in some cases) and in other cases (especially when the prisoner is "inherited") you just get no secondary warning at all. I even caught one of my prisoners sick without the event having fired. The event seems to be hit and miss on its' detection, but it probably has to do with the aforementioned reason. I assume sometimes the prisoner dies faster than the event can trigger warning you about it.

 

[Gavinn]

Wiz, is there any chance you could make previous versions of the mod available for those of us having issues with some of the newer tweaks?

Love the mod, just can't wrap my mind around the holy war/piety changes, but don't want to have to revert back to vanilla...

 

[makif130289]

I see piety as a resource in this mod. So, to The sign of how pious ruler you are is your ability to wage a holy war, not how many piety points you have. You were a devout catholic so that you were able to launch holy war against infidels. This is how I see the changes from positive side.

As for total score, I don't really care about this. I decide if I am successful or not. If I conquered the regions I wished before the end of game, I think I achieved my goal, so I don't really look at the score.

 

[waylit1]

I think viewing Piety as a resource is correct, and I generally like the slowed pace of religious wars that result from the current system. Roleplaying wise, it is like your "Religious Capital" with your Vassals. You tell them to fight a Holy War and they are happy to do it for God and Country...but tell them to do it over and over so soon and it's "Ohh gee, Kingy-poo wants more land and he is using the name of Christ to justify it."

 

[Nitrousoxide]

I think viewing Piety as a resource is correct, and I generally like the slowed pace of religious wars that result from the current system. Roleplaying wise, it is like your "Religious Capital" with your Vassals. You tell them to fight a Holy War and they are happy to do it for God and Country...but tell them to do it over and over so soon and it's "Ohh gee, Kingy-poo wants more land and he is using the name of Christ to justify it."

I posted a suggestion on the last page of this thread which would also slow the use of religious wars, but which wouldn't use up piety as a resource and would instead just require that you have 100 (or whatever number) more piety than the last time you called a religious war.

 

[Grognerd]

A lot of the times they end up dieing before the event can trigger to warn me about it (in some cases) and in other cases (especially when the prisoner is "inherited") you just get no secondary warning at all. I even caught one of my prisoners sick without the event having fired. The event seems to be hit and miss on its' detection, but it probably has to do with the aforementioned reason. I assume sometimes the prisoner dies faster than the event can trigger warning you about it.

Yeah I just had two prisoners die in two seconds, making me a -20 unintentional tyrant boom just like that. No warning, nothing. I was still in the midst of a civil war, so I really didn't have the luxury of immediately deciding what to do with them.

And keep in mind these were rebels who fully deserved to be there.

The -10 hit for dying in prison is a clear mod design flaw; It's both really stupid and has a major impact on game play (a lethal combo); I'm afraid I'm going to have to go back to vanilla until it is done away with.

 

[Tokie]

Is there a bug about Legitimization of bastards? The landless son warning suddenly popped up and I was like uhhh? I had a bastard legitimizing himself without any warnings, thus making him heir because I had primogeniture laws and he was the eldest.

This happened in Sicily's duke on 1066. His eldest son was a bastard and I appointed him as my marshal. I sent him to suppress revolts then he suddenly turned into Legitimized bastard.

 

[zonkie]

Holy Wars, and the general balance of Europe have been improved significantly with the new piety cost and i think it should very much stay.

 

[unmerged(271387)]

Shouldn't byzantium be elective?
And the piety cost for holy wars should stay

 

[johnlukeg]

It won't happen for house arrest and it only happens if the prisoner dies as a result of falling ill in the dungeon. You even get an event telling you your prisoner is ill that allows you to put them in house arrest.

Ooh, is that a recent change? I definitely need to update, then. I'm so sick of getting huge relation hits when a prisoner dies five seconds after I capture them. It happens way too often in my game.

 

[Panjer]

Shouldn't byzantium be elective?

This is bothering me as well.

 

[Popperlicious]

event error using current version

 

[Herl]

I posted a suggestion on the last page of this thread which would also slow the use of religious wars, but which wouldn't use up piety as a resource and would instead just require that you have 100 (or whatever number) more piety than the last time you called a religious war.

I think it's been stated that the decrease on piety is caused by the fact that even though you're warring in the name of god, the church still disapproves a little all wars but crusades.

Your proposal could be interesting, though, but it just makes more sense, and it's more intuitive, for it to work just like money does: you earn it and wait for you to have enough to go ahead and spend it and start all over again.

If anything, I'd like the mod to force you to have the 100 piety instead of just a positive amount so i get less tempted to fall into negative piety because of it.

Maybe a suggestion could be more ways to earn piety? for prestige you already have a very good way to do so: pushing other claims even if they won't end as vassals for you. Maybe something similar to this that would earn you quicker piety? or maybe this itself: if you earn recover someone's claim selfishly: aka they don't end up as vassals, you earn, idk, 50 piety for your selfish act.

 

[Agnitio Ex Mach]

Some of the AI behaves really stupidly. I had the AI once rebel while they were being Jihaded. Right next to a bunch of Muslims. Near game start. Yes, this was Antioch. There needs to be measures to restrict the AI from making obviously stupid decisions.

 

[Wizzington]

So it seems the problems people have with the holy war implementation you developed are two fold:

1: It's not conducive to roleplaying because a crusader will have negative piety while a murdering thug who cares nothing about the Pope will have positive piety.

2: It screws up certain mechanics like dealing with the pope (a crusader can't call on the Pope for any of those diplomacy actions) and depresses the dynasty score for those who engage in holy wars.

However, as a mechanic to prevent excessive use of holy wars, your implementation is pretty good, so mechanically it's good at preventing what it aims at doing. Now I have a possible solution if the constraints of modding allow it which would retain the beneficial slowing of the use the CB while avoiding the pitfalls.

Establish an increasing check for piety for a ruler to use the holy war CB, but rather the deducting the 100 to 250 piety for a holy war, you simply increase the cost of the next holy war. Here's a practical example:

All numbers assume that the holy war is for an adjacent county.
Holy war 1: The game checks to see if the ruler has AT LEAST 100 piety. If he does then he can declare war using that CB. No piety is deducted when he declares war.
Holy war 2: The game checks to see if the ruler has AT LEAST 200 piety. If he does than he can declare war using that CB. No piety is deducted when he declares war.
Holy war 3: The game checks to see if the ruler has AT LEAST 300 piety, and so on

With this, if it can be implemented, you could retain the effective piety requirement for each additional holy war, while not adversely affecting dynasty score, or hurting other gameplay mechanics like interactions with the pope. From a roleplaying perspective you also don't end up with defenders of the faith with negative piety and rutheless atheists with positive piety. It's also easy to convey to the player and can be summed up with one sentence, "Each holy war requires that you have 100 more piety than you did for the last."

Would something like this be possible to implement?

This is possible to implement but would be very unintuitive and confusing from the player's perspective. Do you have any suggestions for how I could make this system intuitive to the player?

 

[Herl]

Some of the AI behaves really stupidly. I had the AI once rebel while they were being Jihaded. Right next to a bunch of Muslims. Near game start. Yes, this was Antioch. There needs to be measures to restrict the AI from making obviously stupid decisions.

It's not crazy, I've done it. Me and the AI just prefer to be indepedent, at least for the moment, instead of being part of a war that will be lost, specially if my territory's part of the contested lands.

 

[Wizzington]

It has happened for house arrest for me on a consistent basis.

The event is for when they complain. I have never seen an event for when the prisoner becomes ill. That is probably because I consistently put them under house arrest when the complaint event pops up. Basically what you are telling me is how I think it should work, but I am telling you in practice it is not working that way. If that means it is not working as designed then consider this a bug report.

I am using 1.01 hotfix 1.

Strange... it seems the house arrest check is indeed being bypassed. I'll fix it.