CK2Plus - Balance improvements, more kingdoms and empires, more ambitions and plots

[Wizzington]

More bugfixes and a rewrite of the Tyranny system since the bugs in it proved unfixable due to hardcoded limitations.

1.17:
- Simplified the Tyranny system. Instead of a variable amount of Tyranny based on rank and cause, any action that gave the tyrant opinion modifier in vanilla will now give an appropriate amount of tyranny that is now shown in the tooltip when carrying out the action. This was the only way to correct a number of bugs with actions giving tyranny when they shouldn't be. As a result the system is now less flexible but much easier to understand. Tyranny costs are now as follows: 10/20 for unlawfully imprisoning a courtier/vassal, 5/10 for executing a courtier/vassal, 0/20 for banishing a courtier/vassal.
- Fixed more bugs with succession laws.
- Culture-specific buildings will no longer be destroyed unless the culture of the province changes, although you will still be unable to build them unless you are of the appropriate culture.

Download CK2Plus 1.17

 

[Kalista]

Requirements are that you are a 100+ piety Christian or Muslim lord bordering a lower rank low piety Pagan ruler. I'll run some tests and see if the MTTH is too high.

think it might be possible to make same rank pagan rulers into that on a longer mtth on it and higher requirements that way if the kingdom of lithuania or finland forms for example that thier neighbours can flip them over just with higher requirements to do so

 

[Wizzington]

Fair enough, I'll make same rank possible.

 

[van Helsing]

More bugfixes and a rewrite of the Tyranny system since the bugs in it proved unfixable due to hardcoded limitations.



Download CK2Plus 1.17

Any estimations on save game compatibility?

 

[Kalista]

Fair enough, I'll make same rank possible.

yeah even tho this is a sample size of 1 game if there lower rank the ai is alot more inclinded to just outright war for the provinces ( ive had russia and poland on me every year the second the treaties up and my armies large enough to make them pay for it) only problem i can see and im sure u can make an exception toward it is if the seljuks are still around since thier empire rank they could get the mongols to flip earlier which may or maynot cause an issuse

 

[Wizzington]

Any estimations on save game compatibility?

Should work fine with 1.15 and up.

 

[Wizzington]

I've been thinking more about Stewardship, and I think I may have the wrong approach to this. Instead of trying to nerf Stewardship down to the level of the other stats, maybe I should be trying to raise the importance of the other stats to the level of (pre-1.15, not vanilla) Stewardship, so that there is a very marked difference between an incompetent ruler and a god-king regardless of which stat that god-king is specced in. Diplomacy is already great, and Martial is almost as good and would only need a small boost. I need to figure out more uses for Intrigue and Learning, but I needed to do that anyway.

 

[van Helsing]

Maybe you should make them meet somewhere in the middle? Vanilla stewardship is ridiculous.

 

[Wizzington]

Maybe you should make them meet somewhere in the middle? Vanilla stewardship is ridiculous.

I'm not talking about vanilla stewardship values, but rather going back to the pre-1.15 modifier (10% of personal+wife). Vanilla stewardship is absurd and the other stats could never hope to match it.

 

[Wizzington]

Also, the perfect use for learning (why didn't I think of this before?) just occured to me: Tech!

- State learning score is now a very important factor in determining technology growth speed.
- State martial score now increases minimum levy size.
- After some consideration, I have restored the old stewardship demense size variable (1 per 10). Instead of nerfing stewardship, I will be aiming to increase the effects of the other stats to make them just as useful.

Now I just need to make intrigue useful...

 

[Kerschey]

State learning already affects the tech speed for all three categories though. Are you going to amplify its effect? In my opinion, technology is such a hands-off aspect of the game that even if you made learning buff it to some ungodly degree, it still wouldn't be a very desirable alternative simply because the tech game isn't very involving.

I'm trying to think of the things that you actually spend the most time doing while playing like managing money, organizing your holdings, building structures, waging war, interacting with other characters through diplomacy, enacting decisions/plots/ambitions, and dealing with succession issues. Stewardship and Diplomacy are the most popular because they have noticeable positive effects on several of those things - things that you spend a lot of time working on. If you've buffed the martial stat as much as you've claimed, that will be desirable too since warfare is a common part of playing. Intrigue is a dull stat because the intrigue menu is kind of fickle with what it has to offer. The frequency of good or fun plots is low, and maybe the payoff isn't enough. I don't really like wall to wall murder plots, but if there was something else engaging there it may be a different story. If intrigue added more regular decisions or buffed the effects of them, that could be useful too. Learning buffs a menu that you open maybe one time.

Edit: If learning somehow buffed your ability to be an effective tutor for children, I think that would make it far more desirable than any tech buff. I'm not sure how that would work though exactly, because you wouldn't necessarily want everyone to end up with a learning type education and a player controlled guardian is already extremely good to begin with.

 

[Wizzington]

State learning already affects the tech speed for all three categories though. Are you going to amplify its effect? In my opinion, technology is such a hands-off aspect of the game that even if you made learning buff it to some ungodly degree, it still wouldn't be a very desirable alternative simply because the tech game isn't very involving.

Huh, so it does. Can you believe I never realized that? I guess I'll have to keep thinking, although this does make Learning better than I thought it was.

 

[zonkie]

Just wondering if you'd accept donations? So that we can contribute to CK2Plus?

 

[Kalista]

could always make learning increase the chance of getting the better education trait maybe .5-1% per point of learning or whatever gives better balance

 

[voitek]

Edit: Ignore the post

 

[Richard Dolder]

Huh, so it does. Can you believe I never realized that? I guess I'll have to keep thinking, although this does make Learning better than I thought it was.

You didn't know learning affected tech? Terrible wiz. hmy:


Honestly my opinion is that stewardship shouldn't effect demense size at all, and the base demense size should be bumped slightly. But then stewardship should have other effects than just taxes in that case.

 

[Kerschey]

Just an idea, but would it be possible to make intrigue educations reduce the tax penalty for keeping cities in your demesne and learning educations decrease the penalty for keeping churches in your demesne? Then if you have a legacy or high intrigue or high learning rulers you have way more flexibility of which holdings you hold onto and where.

 

[Herl]

Just an idea, but would it be possible to make intrigue reduce the tax penalty for keeping cities in your demesne and learning decrease the penalty for keeping churches in your demesne? Then if you have a legacy or high intrigue or high learning rulers you have way more flexibility of which holdings you hold onto and where.

I think I sort of like this idea, but I'd propose this:

high stewardship:
-nerfed demesne bonus as in 1.16
-no penalty for wrong demesne type if you're a feudal lord owning a city.
-no penalyy for wrong government type if you're a feudal lord with a vassal lord-mayor (or however the count-level mayors are called. I forgot)

high learning:
-Increasing the tech growth, cause as it's beeing said, tech is so meh anyway for most of the game.
-no penalty for wrong demesne type if you're a feudal lord owning a church.
-no penalyy for wrong government type if you're a feudal lord with a vassal archbishop (or however the count-level biships are called. In case I'm confusing them)

high intrigue:
This one is tricky, but I think this should be worked into diplomatic decisions. Like for example a bethrotal proposal, rp-wise, a high-intrigue ruler should be able to, idk, use his spies network to find out a way to convince the other guy to accept. in game, this would translate to an additional acceptance factor giving additional ++++ to high intrigue rulers. And so on with other decisions, like offer vassalisation. I believe this is hardcoded, anyway, right?

Another proposal is based on how decisions, ambitions and plots are all in the intrigue tab of the UI. Maybe a high-intrigue leader has their ambitions' goals scaled down while retaining the same award, also their decisions would cost less money, and intrigue already affects plots anyway...

martial:
Lupus Agnum. What else?

 

[themendios]

Make learning somehow play into dealing with religious leaders and/or holy wars?

 

[waylit1]

Would it be possible to give Intrigue a one time bonus to Diplomatic actions? Such as, if the spymaster gets a blackmail item on a ruler, your next diplomatic action with them is much more likely.