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Riekopo

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Apr 24, 2013
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I would really like CK2 to have some version of EU4's Lucky Nations feature. I love CK2 but my games end up becoming really unhistorical and goofy a lot of the time and it bothers me. Maybe CK2 can have a Lucky Nations or Lucky Dynasties or Lucky Families feature. I'd really like that.
 
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No. Absolutely not. You want to be powerful - earn it. Static bonuses based solely on the fact that your kind did well in that time period should not be a thing under any circumstances.
 
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No. Absolutely not. You want to be powerful - earn it. Static bonuses based solely on the fact that your kind did well in that time period should not be a thing under any circumstances.

Guess what lol? If you don't like it then don't use it. It's this amazing thing called options and Game Rules.
 
Guess what lol? If you don't like it then don't use it. It's this amazing thing called options and Game Rules.
Just like in EU4 where you can technically disable lucky nations but doing so also disables achievements? Yea, no.
 
There are no nations to be lucky in CK. There are Characters and Titles.

Historical rulers can have Bloodlines, vassal Mercenary bands, broken inheritance laws and/or eventroops to get a historical setting. That's the closest to "Lucky nations" you will ever come with CK2.
 
No. Absolutely not. You want to be powerful - earn it. Static bonuses based solely on the fact that your kind did well in that time period should not be a thing under any circumstances.
Those kind of static bonuses are in the game already. For instance, the Seljuk's have access to a free invasion CB called Manifest Destiny. Then there are certain events which are more likely to fire for characters of certain cultures and dynasties, for example increased likelihood of Norman adventurers. Both of these things are things I don't really have a problem with, although the special CB is probably unnecessary in 1066 and should be restricted to the spawned Seljuks in the earlier starts.
Guess what lol? If you don't like it then don't use it. It's this amazing thing called options and Game Rules.
Game rules are great yes, but it their implementation is likely a pain. All options should be functional and enjoyable so it adds to testing complications. I do agree though, that anything that involves railroading should be behind a game rule (Story Events, 4th Crusade, Turkic Conquerors etc).
Lucky Nations are one of the worst things in EU4, leading to the same boring nations blobbing around the world. No thanks.
There are no nations to be lucky in CK. There are Characters and Titles.

Historical rulers can have Bloodlines, vassal Mercenary bands, broken inheritance laws and/or eventroops to get a historical setting. That's the closest to "Lucky nations" you will ever come with CK2.
I think that @Tryvenyal has a good point (which OP also mentioned by the way) in that we should be thinking in terms of families and characters rather than nations. But I do think that there are plenty of more options that could be explored.

Consider the Child of Destiny. Their strength does not come primarily from the Bloodline (sure, it's powerful in player hands but the AI is generally not very good at knowing when to utilize their free invasion to best effect), it comes from all the bonuses to the initial character. They get loads of bonuses, such as increased morale faster reinforcement rate (the latter being a much more fun bonus than event troops) and reinforcing event troops and, if I recall correctly, unlimited invasions. They can build a large realm in one generation but after the initial ruler has passed, the successor is left with a relatively lackluster bloodline and are often unable to hold the realm together. This means boom and bust, blobbing and decay - i.e. what CK2 realms should be all about. Stability is generally too great in CK2 due to slow and steady expansion with content vassals. Blobs that grow one holy war at the time will have a far too steady and stable realm. But realms that grow uncontrollably (especially by subjugating large realms that end up as powerful angry vassals) due to temporary bonuses that they later lose are often in a much more fragile position. But I'm starting to digress. :oops:

From a gameplay perspective, I love Children of Destiny - powerful adventurers that stirs the pot and leaves power vacuum in their wake. But from a immersion perspective, their complete randomness is disappointing. Scottish adventurers in Tibet; Chinese in Maghreb, Dutch in Persia. Often the bastard children of some debutante.

I think a lucky mechanic could be based on a lightweight version of the Child of Destiny. A character receives similar bonuses but they are not kept by successors and there are no bloodlines. There are greater restrictions to regional scope but otherwise it functions i pretty much the same way. Their chances of spawning should be lowered if the dynasty is already powerful (or has been powerful), best checked against their dynastic score and top tier title.

These type of light-weight Children of Destiny (LW CoD) should not be restricted to these dynasties, but they should have a much higher likelihood to trigger the event.

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Example 1. A Russian courtier can become a LW CoD within the Empire of Russia. They receive bonuses to morale and reinforcement rate, a fairly small stack of non-inheritable (but reinforcing) event troops and has free invasion cb on any kingdom within Empire of Russia.
  • Low initial MTTH - maybe once in 100 years
  • Greatly increased chance if the dynasty is Rurikid and the dynasty's score is fairly low (lower than in 1066)
Example 2. A Turkish courtier can become a LW CoD within the Empires of Persia and Arabia and Rajastan. They receive bonuses to morale and reinforcement rate, a fairly small stack of non-inheritable (but reinforcing) event troops and has free invasion cb on any kingdom within said empires.
  • Moderate intial MTTH
  • Somewhat increased for Seljuks (in Persia and Arabia), Ghazvanids (in Persia and Rajastan) Khwarezmids (in Persia) if they don't control an empire
Example 3: A Berber courtier can LW CoD within the Empires of Hispania and Maghreb. They receive bonuses to morale and reinforcement rate, a fairly small stack of non-inheritable (but reinforcing) event troops and has free invasion cb on any kingdom within said empires.
  • Moderate initial MTTH
  • Somewhat increased chances for Almoravids and Almohads if they have low dynasty score.
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Obviously this is not an exhaustive list, just an attempt at clarifying my position. Adding mechanics for vassal children of destiny that can blob inside as well as outside of a realm while being very likely to become a rival of their liege (a double edged sword, indeed) could also be lovely.
Just like in EU4 where you can technically disable lucky nations but doing so also disables achievements? Yea, no.
Disabling railroading does generally not disable achievements in ck2 - the only exception I can think of is disabling Genghis Khan. The example above is based on Child of Destiny which currently can be disabled while retaining achievements.


But as a final note, it should be mentioned that the ship has probably already sailed for suggestions, any future CK2 patch will probably only involve itself with bugfixing. Still, there is a great modding community that shows no signs of quitting just yet :)
 
This one would be really tricky, because while EU4 is about centralised countries, ck2 is about dinasties and the important role they played in the feudal system and if your idea was implemented, how would it work? Because if your feature applies for the whole dinasty, then a lot of counties, duchies, kingdoms and empires would have this buff and the game would be totally broken, also there’s an issue regarding who would have the buff, because if it applies to every direct descendant of your character we already have the bloodlines system.
 
The Problem here is the bad AI wich has no plan at all and only act by chance. So they do not plan to establish an empire or a legacy and act accordingly to achieve it they simple daydream all day every day and roll dices how to act. That is kinda sad.

So I wouldn’t mind a lucky dynasty mechanic (game rule (off/random dynasties/historically succesful dynasties) wich have at least some kind of goal to achieve wich is inherited by the primary heir wich will also act to achieve it. Maybe also bless them with better health and fertility.

Of course a 769 game could go on for ever and railroad it for 700 years is impossible, but I would mi d AI Etichonen would go for Hapsburg decision and the Hapsburg Dynasty would go for HRE and Archduchy.

Edit: Of course no such thing would come for CK2 anymore but maybe for CK3.
 
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It should only apply to other lucky dynasties though, and maybe even then only ones you can't interact with as whoever you're playing. Those out of range and other religions who do not accept offers from heretics. Because it is frustrating to have old and famous dynasties die off before you can do anything with them, only because they won't get married or some random disease kills the last member
 
Many (or most, depending on the start date) of the major dynasties did die off. though. Having a Carolingian rule France until 1453 is quite absurd outcome. At the 769 start date, much of history was in fact random. There was no reason to suppose an empire of Germany and Italy (but excluding France) would form 200 years from now, or that Norsemen would be settled on the coastline of Neustria in a 150 years, and in another 150 years, their leader would claim the throne of England and turn Anglo-Saxon into a half Romance language.

The game does railroad some things, like the Christian conquest of Iberia, the 4th crusade does aid in the Islamic conquest of Anatolia, and the pagan faiths tend to lose to the Abrahamic ones. But, most of the events of the period are the result of accidents of marriages, births, and deaths, rather than deeper historical forces.