CK2 player coming to EU3 - What do I need to know?

[Zedwardson]

Hi all,

I decided that I am going to start playing some EU3, after putting in over 200 hours in Crusader Kings 2, so I guess my question is what do i need to know as a player before i get started on this.

Thanks!

 

[TankRush]

I can help, I came from EU3 to Crusader Kings (and then CK2).

EU3 is a more traditional nation-builder strategy game than CK2. The thing I found that I loved most about CK2, managing a fuedal bloodline, is pretty much the most novel concept I've encountered in strategy gaming. Unfortunately, EU3 doesn't really have that, not in the same in-depth way that you find in CK2. Though there are some aspects. Despite the core differences both games are very fun, and I found EU3 the easiest to learn. If you're playing a monarchy or despotism of some sort then you will have a dynasty that you can try to expand through royal marriages. It's all fairly random and out of your control though, as I said. Both concerning whether your dynasty eventually takes over the throne of another nation, and the stats of any rulers that your dynasty controls.

Of course, you don't have to play a monarchy either. You could be the republic of Venice, and play a succession of Doges. There is a general minor advantage to playing a Republic of some sort, as the leader that gets elected tend to be of better skill than most born, but you obviously can't have a Personal Union (when your ruler holds the crown of more than one nation) or a Royal Marriage.

Armies need to be built ahead of time, instead of raising vassals whenever a war pops up, and you can have a standing army ready for your declaration of war, though standing armies can be expensive. Likewise war is a bit simplified, with really only 3 units available at any one time (the ones you choose as your default military units for Infantry, Cavalry, and later Artillery). Other factors tend to be more important than variety of unit types, particularly the level of military technology.

Province managment is more important, as well as your experts ever since they added the feature in Divine Wind, where a Magistrate is required to build a building (kinda sucks I know, but unless you're a huge sprawling empire, it's not too bad, mostly I was annoyed I kept forgetting to keep Magistrates below 5).

And those are all the basics that come to mind, right at the moment anyway.

I also suggest this thread for some humourous inspiration on the subject of the game http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?513361-Raaage!

 

[XRW]

In CKII you didn't generally have to worry about allies in wars. If you could swoop in quick like and assault the castles you won period. Allies had like a 50/50 chance of actually joining the war and in nations generally only brought a small handful of allies at max if at all.

In EU3 every war has the potential to be world war 1, 2 AND, 3. Allies of allies of allies, defenders of faith, gaurantees, warnings, and sphere of influence are subject to being brought into the war against you. Don't forget about the emperor if you're anywhere near the HRE. Also allies almost always join wars against you but seem to frequently dishonor your own calls. There's a whole slew of gamey tactics designed to control the number of nations your at war with. Such as being allied with one nation in a war and declaring war on a nation that is guaranteed by the other nation.

Conquest is a function of time. No longer can you inherit or invade large swathes of land at once. Everything costs infamy, and you have a limit. If you go over the limit bad things happen such as, everyone in the known world randomly declaring war on you. Your infamy goes down at a fairly constant rate, affected by various factors of course.

Rebels are 1000 times more annoying, numerous, and tedious. Get ready to have 20k pop up in a province you have 12k troops garrisoned in and lose the whole stack. Get ready to chase rebels back and forth between provinces.

The feudal system is gone. Dump the wife and get yourself a boyfriend, or an unhealthy obsession with 2d girls. You no longer need keep the family line going. If your dynasty dies out a new one replaces it. Heirs are random. All family strife is gone. Titles are never lost to inheritance.

Hordes are broken, and annoying. Remember that horde that just kinda chilled in russia doing nothing for 100 years? Now it's going to try to invade you every 5 years, on the dot. If it occupies a province to long it auto annexes it. You can colonize the hordes to take land from them. Probability of poland or bohemia or other forming a giant snake into asia is very high.

War exhaustion. It's not fun. If you want to be a dick find a large country that has high war exhaustion and dow them. Their WE won't decrease while at war and they'll slowly fall apart.

Income comes in 2 varieties. Monthly and yearly. Monthly income is spent on research. A portion can be diverted into money at the cost of inflation. Yearly income is a portion of the tax value of each province that you receive at the first day of each year.

 

[TankRush]

Back again to provide more advice, if you're interested.

Ideas.
Ideas are one of the more important aspects of the game, they help make your nation more unique compared to others, as well as offer various advantages, all neatly organised for you as well. Some of them effect the rate at which Stability can be improvied (more on Stability in a bit), others effect the Morale of your armies, while one of them is important for exploring and conquering the 'new world' (which isn't just the Americas). You'll want to choose your Ideas with some care, because changing them later on causes you to drop 3 Stability, so when picking a new one a little long-term planning is prudent (there's nothing necessarily wrong with changing them, just know the costs).

Stability
Stability effects so much that it is really one of the most important statistics your empire will have, and the one that the game likes to penalise you with most often (keep an eye out for Comets, hehe). Like researching technology, the amount you need to invest to raise your Stability by 1 point is effected by the size of your empire (and a host of other factors). Despite any factors, it's important to try and keep your Stability in the positive (it ranges from -5 to +3), as low Stability reduces your national taxes, hampers army morale, and increases the risk of revolt, among some other unpleasant effects.

Inflation
Watch your inflation. While minting lots of money may be necessary (if you decide to play a small nation that can't generate much money at a time), or help fund large projects very quickly, if you let it get out of control is can destroy you as much as any invading empire, as Inflation increases the costs of all your buildings and military units as it accrues. One kinda gamey tactic is to turn on War Taxes if you can afford to soak up some War Exhaustion, or start a war with a non-threat simply to use them when you're nice and stable and you otherwise aren't taking any other attrition. There are Ideas, buildings, and decisions that you can use to reduce inflation, so you can afford to build up some early in the game, secure in the knowledge that if you successfully expand and improve your nation, you can then manage it much more effectively.

That's all for now.

 

[WeAreAwful]

People above have been giving you some general advise. I think it is better to jump in. EU3 and CKII have some similarities. For instance, you (more or less) control a certain group, and your goal is generally to gain power. As such, the game shouldn't be overly confusing for you to get into. The main differences are that you don't have to worry about vassals ganging up on you. Once you control a province (especially if you have a core on it) it won't leave your control unless you lose it in a war or it is occupied for rebels for ~2 years. Don't let that happen.

I have two suggestions, different from what much of the forum would suggest-
Play as either France or Burgundy. Both of them are powerful, rich nations. Additionally, you'll fight in a number of wars with either of them, which will teach you the game much better than sitting and not doing anything.

General advise- Start on very easy. If it is too easy, don't hesitate on going to a higher difficulty level. They are more fun. For the game itself, investments in tech are very important. Day 1, put all of your monthly income into stability. It gives you tons of good stuff, including extra taxes and less revolt risk. After you have maxed out at +3 stab, put all investments into government until you reach level 4. This will give you your first idea, which should be military drill if you plan on fighting wars (as Burgundy or France, you will). You will lose money every month. This will be made up in your yearly income. If you are running short, put some of your monthly income into minting. Inflation might happen, but not on Very Easy (you get a massive inflation drop on that difficulty). When you declare war on a nation, chose a CB, otherwise you take a minimum of 2 stab hit and take war exhaustion (this is bad, it hurts everything). Additionally, cancel any military access you have when DoWing for the same reason.

Specific tips:
France: They are strong and rich, with lots of vassals. On very easy, you should be able to field a ton of troops. Day 1, send alliance offers to each of your vassals, they are small but they do help. Additionally, they won't turn on you unlike in CKII. Your first target should be Province. You have cores on them, so you have a CB on them (reconquest, it gives infamy free provinces). If you are playing 5.1 vanilla, this will bring in Bohemia, as well as Naples. Bohemia can be an issue. If/when they send armies, merge yours and hit them hard. Use a general. Seriously, do it. If you beat them, follow them to the next province they go to. Hopefully you can stack wipe them (kill all of their troops immediately). Take your cores from province if you can (if they are under a personal union with Naples, you won't be able to. Otherwise, get military access through Italy, occupy all of Naples, and annex them. Rich provinces, but lots of rebels. After doing that, follow your missions, diplomatically annex your vassals (expand your sphere of influence to help with that). Then do what you want, but be weary of two things- England and infamy. England will have a larger fleet than you. If you want to beat them, the best way is to put troops into Scotland before declaring war. Probably ~30,000, though less might do it. Let their armies come to you and wipe them. Occupy their provinces and you'll be able to beat them.

Burgundy- My personal favorite nation to play with for new players. All you have to do with them is follow their missions. You will get missions to annex (only if you get a mission to do so)/vassalize minors in the lowlands. Do them. These wars will lead to you getting attacked by a lot of minors. That is good, especially if the minors are electors. Always vassalize an elector. Then you can become the emperor. Be careful not to take many territories that are part of the empire (check on the empire mapmode) that you don't have cores on. They give you infamy, hurt your stability, and give the emperor a CB on you. After you finish eating your minors and have a wall of vassals around you, wait for your infamy to drop. Your goal now is to beat France (attack even without CB if they are getting tag teamed). Slowly beat France up, forcing them to release nations, release vassals and give territory. Your goal should be to diplomatically vassalize French minors. To do so, expand your sphere of influence. Then, get a royal marriage/alliance with them. Give gifts until relations are at least 190 and offer vassilization. Hope they accept.


Good luck, I know I threw a lot of stuff at you. If you are confused or need help, feel free to ask.

 

[Stadhouder]

Burgundy- My personal favorite nation to play with for new players.

I fully agree with this. Burgundy has a great sliders for economy and military, following their missions gives you some relatively easy combat experience, and you can fondle with the HRE dynamics. Have fun!

 

[Zedwardson]

All this sounds reasonable - what is exactly a "Core" province, I think I get a drift but I am not sure.

As for picking nations, I guessing a large country like Burgundy is not a management issue, I guess I used to "learn the game with a small country" like a Ireland or a small German nation.

 

[Icendoan]

No, the larger the starting country, the easier time you'll have (there are certainly exceptions to this rule). Small countries are prey to larger ones.

A core province is a province your nation has legitimate claim to, and you get a host of benefits from your provinces being core. Furthermore, cores are lost and gained over a 50 year period - if you haven't owned your core for 50 years, and it's owned by someone who's not in your culture group, it disappears. You get a very good cassus bellum to reclaim cores.

 

[Kinghillard]

i think the big diference is that EU3 is a diplomatic playground, Castille:MOOOOOOM i WANNA INVADE NORWAY, AND I WANNA GUARANTEE THE GOLDEN HORDE AND I WANNA ALLY WITH FRANCE AND ENGLAND AND PORTUGAL AND BAR AND KNIGHTS AND BYZANTIUM AND RUSSIA AND THE AZTEC AND I WANNADEFEND EVERY CATHOLIC COUNTRY IN THE GAME LIKE THEY WERENT OP ENOUGH AND I WANNA HAVE THE RICHEST PROVINCES IN EUROPE SO NOP ONE CAN ATTACK ANY OF THEESE COUNTRIES.

 

[Zedwardson]

No, the larger the starting country, the easier time you'll have (there are certainly exceptions to this rule). Small countries are prey to larger ones.

A core province is a province your nation has legitimate claim to, and you get a host of benefits from your provinces being core. Furthermore, cores are lost and gained over a 50 year period - if you haven't owned your core for 50 years, and it's owned by someone who's not in your culture group, it disappears. You get a very good cassus bellum to reclaim cores.

So Core is like De Jure in CKII, except that it also gives you a great CB. And over time it can drift.

 

[Nessaj]

So Core is like De Jure in CKII, except that it also gives you a great CB. And over time it can drift.

Cores also give other bonuses, like increased tax income and lower revolt risk. If you have low war exhaustion you will probably never see a cored province of your primary culture revolt unless you have a throng of +revolt risk modifiers. Cores also matter a lot inside the HRE. Playing a duke and expanding inside the empire while enjoying the emperors protection is now a bit more difficult because of the unlawful territory modifier. You gain a HUGE malus for having uncored provinces inside the empire if you're also in it.

 

[Lessing]

CK2 and EU3 can be pretty similar, but that only makes the differences more profound. I had a few troubles coming from CK2 to EU3, and the best way to learn is to play the game, read this forum, and read some (Divine Wind, if you have that) AARs.

 

[Zedwardson]

CK2 and EU3 can be pretty similar, but that only makes the differences more profound. I had a few troubles coming from CK2 to EU3, and the best way to learn is to play the game, read this forum, and read some (Divine Wind, if you have that) AARs.

Thanks, I just upgraded to the free EU3 with all addons Paradox gave away, and getting ready to play a game or two.

 

[MrQwerty]

If you haven't decided already, give Castille a try. You start out as the biggest nation in Iberia, you can form a personal union with Aragon and form Spain, you have the wealth to colonize large tracts of land in the Americas, and especially with an alliance with the French, you can really throw your weight around.

Colonies can be as expensive as sixty ducats at full maintenance. Use "extra colonist" ideas and National Focus to speed up colony growth, since at 1000 settlers, the colony becomes a self-sustaining province. Also, any natives in the colony will be counted into the total population.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Cores also give other bonuses...

But don't forget that there are penalties for not owning your core provinces, particularly regarding prestige.

Essentially, if someone else controls a bunch of your cores, people point at you and laugh.

 

[Zedwardson]

Ok, I am playing a "Sub game" where i am learning the controls, and did a OPM so I can learn what goes where, and I got dragged in a war, but I am winning at least

 

[Zedwardson]

Playing two games, and they are very unlike each other. One is I am a little OPM trying to grow, and then a so far easy game where I am portugul and raced to Trade seven and now trying to build out a colonial empire.