CK2 Nonsensical Random Traits

[ash001]

I still wonder if the tests you made indicate some sort of, er, bug (?) or if there's something we're missing here.

As for the game design goal, I agree with you, it feels like a conscious decision to keep a high number of traits.
What I don't understand so much is why make it harder to mod this... maybe the devs felt less traits meant less trait-specific events being fired and were against it... I really dont know. :unsure:

 

[Baneslave]

Just tested what happens when personality = yes is removed from all traits. Crashes when pressing start...

 

[Grell74]

Just tested what happens when personality = yes is removed from all traits. Crashes when pressing start...

If you replace the traits.txt file with the code I had on the previous page it doesnt crash, but characters may have the same trait twice and also have opposites... I cant figure out why though.

I might just use events to reduce traits, I did this in Ck1 (in the Westeros mod i realesed) but in CK1 I had more success with using multiple opposite traits. If a trait was gained with opposites the engine deleted the opposite. Basically in CK1 I made an event (based of Paradox event) for EVERY personality trait, which triggers if the character also possesses traits which dont make much sense. There is an option to become stressed by keeping both traits or losing the incompatible trait. Here is the one i used for the hostile trait:

# Personality Crisis series HOSTILE

character_event = {
	id = 69602

	picture = "event_madness"

	trigger = {
		condition = { type = age value = 16 }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = age value = 40 } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = stubborn } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = stress_symptom } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = maniac } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = schizofrenia } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = depression } }
		condition = { type = trait value = hostile }
		condition = {
			type = or 
				condition = { type = trait value = forgiving }
				condition = { type = trait value = merciful }
				condition = { type = trait value = generous }
				condition = { type = trait value = amiable }
				condition = { type = trait value = gregarious }
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 240

		modifier = { 
			condition = { type = ai }
			factor = 0.8
		}
		modifier = {
			condition = { type = or
				condition = { type = ruler }
				condition = { type = marshal }
				condition = { type = chancellor }
				condition = { type = spymaster }
				condition = { type = steward }
				condition = { type = chaplain }
			}
			factor = 0.5
		}
	}

	action_a = {
		ai_chance = 35
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = cruel }
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = deceitful }
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = hostile }
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = pragmatic }
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = proud }
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = vengeful }
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = selfish }
	}
	action_b = {
		ai_chance = 35
			#start AI modifier block
		modifier = {
			condition = { type = or
				condition = { type = trait value = cruel }
				condition = { type = trait value = deceitful }
				condition = { type = trait value = pragmatic }
				condition = { type = trait value = proud }
				condition = { type = trait value = vengeful }
				condition = { type = trait value = selfish }
			}
			factor = 2.0
		}
			#end AI modifier block
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = forgiving }
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = merciful }
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = gregarious }
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = generous }
		effect = { type = remove_trait value = amiable }
	}
	action_c = {
		ai_chance = 30
		effect = { type = random chance = 10
			effect = { type = add_trait value = stubborn }
		}
		effect = { type = random chance = 10
			effect = { type = add_trait value = stress_symptom }
		}
	}
}

I am not yet too familiar with ck2 event modding but I am sure something similar can be done. It would have been more elegant and simplier to have this acheived with opposites though.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

nvm

 

[Grell74]

hurrah! I figured out what was wrong.

Being the concientious modder that I am I was making a backup copy of the 00_traits.txt file and renaming it BACKUP00_traits.txt and leaving it in the /common/traits folder. Once I got rid of this there were no longer duplicated traits and opposites appearing on characters!

Further testing and the multiple opposties seems to be working well, no more kind impalers or temperate drunkards.

 

[Vindahl]

hurrah! I figured out what was wrong.

Being the concientious modder that I am I was making a backup copy of the 00_traits.txt file and renaming it BACKUP00_traits.txt and leaving it in the /common/traits folder. Once I got rid of this there were no longer duplicated traits and opposites appearing on characters!

Further testing and the multiple opposties seems to be working well, no more kind impalers or temperate drunkards.

Is this something you will make a mod of, that we could download?

 

[Guinnessmonkey]

I get that the game wants to assign random traits to randomly generated characters, but I really think that there should be limits:

1: Characters marked as "historical" should only get the traits that are assigned. If I'm playing the GoT mod, I shouldn't have Ser Duncan the Tall randomly assigned the "craven" trait at the beginning of the game. If you want to keep the ability for historical characters to have a couple random traits for flavor, add a command that gives "trait=random" or something, that way you can say that the guy is Brave, Kind, and [Insert random one here]. Building scenarios and carefully building characters only to have the game randomly insert a bunch of nonsense on top of it is really, really aggravating.

2. Limit some traits from appearing in certain types of random characters: I get that the game only has so many marriageable females of the proper age at any one time, so if I crusade in and have to create dozens of new barons or counts in a day, many if not most of 'em will have random lowborn women as wives. Thing is, if you're marrying a random commoner and can therefore pick from any woman in the county, are you likely to pick a cruel, inbred, dwarven, hunchback? I'd be really nice to have the ability to tweak which events are more likely for random courtiers... If I'm asking for a random guy to command an army, why would weaklings even show up? I have enough inbred hunchbacks in my nobility, I don't really need more from the folks who are essentially random job applicants. Giving offices or command to lowborn should come at a cost, either in not getting the loyalty bonus you get for assigning an office to a vassal or in a bonus to giving a vassal command (something we currently don't have, but probably should... There should be reasons why you sometimes want to give command to Duke Incompetent instead of some commoner, but the game doesn't simulate this at all....). In return, lowborn should be vastly more likely to be of talent; these are essentially the knights or townsmen who were of great enough merit to gain the attention of a duke or king, after all. Making them 100% random seems to miss the point entirely. Summoning a random courtier is expensive; at least make it more likely than not that I'll get someone at least vaguely competent.

And really. Stuff like dwarfism is WAY too common. Only 1 in 25,000 (some studies suggest it may be as low as 1 in 100,000) people have it in real life (how many of you don't even know a single person with Achondropasia? Heck, how many of you have never even seen someone with it in person?), and many of them would have been killed as infants back in the day. Dwarven lowborn should be VERY VERY VERY rare, so rare that their inclusion in the game is probably unneeded. But back when retinue general spamming was around, I could create 20 units and be sure to have at least one, usually more, generals with dwarfism out of that 20... That's ridiculous. I know, I know. Tyrion Lannister is cool. But GRRM didn't make 10% of Westeros dwarves. Heck, the entire series of books has what? Two dwarves who aren't carnival entertainers? Then why do I have so many ruling counties or dutchies in my empire? Having a powerful duke have a dwarf as an heir should be a notable event. Instead in CK2 it happens CONSTANTLY.

 

[Raczynski]

You can set the game to not assign random traits to historical characters now.

 

[Guinnessmonkey]

You can set the game to not assign random traits to historical characters now.

How? Just searched the forums in a few different combinations, but couldn't find anything. Didn't see anything in the game itself or in the settings file.


(Either way, it'll still be have my barons marrying inbred ugly hunchbacks, and a good 5% or more of the population will suffer from dwarfism....)

 

[Kaiser Ludwig]

Well, we need our Court Dwarfs...

 

[unmerged(457738)]

Traits are one of the (few) areas where the total war series does things better than CK2. Different levels of each trait, and largely developed from the characters actions, rather than arbitrary RNG rolls.

 

[Raczynski]

How? Just searched the forums in a few different combinations, but couldn't find anything. Didn't see anything in the game itself or in the settings file.


(Either way, it'll still be have my barons marrying inbred ugly hunchbacks, and a good 5% or more of the population will suffer from dwarfism....)

In defines.lua:

MAX_GENERATED_TRAITS_FOR_HISTORICAL = 4, -- Generate random traits up this number for adult historical characters

As for your other problems, CK+ used/uses a system where congenial traits were replaced by a placeholder and then assigned in more reasonable amounts. So it's possible with some modding magic.

 

[Guinnessmonkey]

In defines.lua:

MAX_GENERATED_TRAITS_FOR_HISTORICAL = 4, -- Generate random traits up this number for adult historical characters

As for your other problems, CK+ used/uses a system where congenial traits were replaced by a placeholder and then assigned in more reasonable amounts. So it's possible with some modding magic.

Danke, though I do think that this is a fairly silly way to go about it. Be easier to be able to define on a character-by-character basis how many random traits to add. Can't the programmers whip up a trait called "Random" that, when the character has it, forces the game to generate a random one on creation? That way historical characters that are a known quantity (i.e. the bigger ones) can have zero random traits, whereas historical characters where not much is known besides their name, their parentage, and a vague sense of their birthdate can have a few random ones. Characters where you know a bunch of stuff, but not enough to fill in all the gaps can have just one or two to fill things out.

Instead we're just applying random traits to all characters in the same way... If they're well known and you've given them a bunch of traits already, they get x random traits added. If they're a total blank slate, they get x random traits added as well. Silly, silly, silly.

 

[Guinnessmonkey]

Well, we need our Court Dwarfs...

Want some of mine? My court has more than it can deal with.... Sometimes I feel like I'm the Emperor of the Lollipop Guild.

 

[Hackworthy]

This issue especially bothers me with the Komnenoi. Trying to play as John and him coming out as a "Naive Appeaser" was ridiculous.

 

[Zireael]

Jaime Lannister coming out as Craven in AGOT...

 

[Guinnessmonkey]

Jaime Lannister coming out as Craven in AGOT...

Yhea. It was AGOT issues that made me search for this thread. It stands out even more there, since we know the characters intimately (having spent dozens of chapters inside their heads). When King Robb is suddenly a deceitful craven, it really ruins things.