CK2+ & HIP

[dexxa]

I'm relatively new to CK2 and have a question - could someone please explain the difference between CK2+ and HIP ? I'm not trolling or trying to start a pi**ing contest ... I'm sure they're both very fine mods in their own ways. Thank you kindly ...

 

[HandicapdHippo]

I'm relatively new to CK2 and have a question - could someone please explain the difference between CK2+ and HIP ? I'm not trolling or trying to start a pi**ing contest ... I'm sure they're both very fine mods in their own ways. Thank you kindly ...

HIP is a group of several different mods by different teams designed to be modular and work together, these are EMF: A mechanics mod, SWMH: a map mod, VIET: an events mod, ARKO: an interface mod, NBRT + a graphics mod and CPR: a portrait mod.

CK2+ is an overhaul mod encompassing many of the same areas as HIP but is a singular package.

Listing the differences beyond that would take too long and you would be better looking through the features lists on their threads and trying them out yourself.

 

[LordPeter]

Basically what HandicapdHippo said.
There have been mayn threads about which of the two mods does what, or which one is "better", but in the end they are both really good choices.

HIP is more modular than CK2Plus for sure, and it has a fancier map with a (you could call it "pedantic" ) focus on historical accuracy. Plus has a redone map as well, but over here everything is more focused on giving balanced gameplay options than being historically accurate. That's probably the main reason I stayed with Plus, because I value gameplay fun more than historical plausibility.
But that depends on one's personal preferences, of course.
EMF has shaped up pretty well lately, so I guess HIP is also more "fun" to play right now than it was. But both mods are ever still gaining momentum, with Plus recently adding flavour to heresies, in addition to the flavour the old religions already got (we have Celtic, Hellenic and Kemetism).
The faction system of Plus is way superior than anthing else out there, while HIP has VIET, which brings a lot of new random events (90% of them are about baklava or xwedodah, but oh well... ).

More features to list I don't have time, but I guess you see both have their strengths, and a slightly different focus.

Anyway, if the new HIP comes out and I get permission, I will once again bring CPR and VIET as submods for CK2Plus. Because, tbh, I can't play without parts of HIP now as well.
Thankfully we have both mods

 

[SwordHunterGil]

HIP is a mod that lets you define your experience with Crusader Kings 2. It allows you to customize tons of aspects of your game, such as starting as a Merchant Republic, undoing Tribalism across the entire board, and similar things.

CK2+ is a mod that deepens the core gameplay. It makes the existing features better.

Basically, HIP is for playing your way, CK2+ is for playing the "intended" way but better.

 

[dskod1]

I used to play CK2+ exclusively ages and ages ago. Like around the time that the muslim DLC came out. Then, after taking a break from the game, I played HIP and it got its hooks into me.

My god, the map of SWMH (HIP Module) is simply astounding and addicting, many times have I tried to go back to the vanilla map but just can't. Since the release of horselords I have been forced to play the vanilla map till the new version of HIP comes out.

One of the things I instantly missed from CK2+ was the faction system. It is probably one of there best and most noticeable mechanics. EMF (hip module) is yet to really introduce anything that can stand up to that.

Also, for those interested, CPR (in HIP) has been discontinued and replaced with CPR+. With permission from paradox, HIP has begun distributing it with there install but under special conditions of it being encrypted and only being installed if the installer detects the correct DLCs are installed.

 

[LordPeter]

HIP is a mod that lets you define your experience with Crusader Kings 2. It allows you to customize tons of aspects of your game, such as starting as a Merchant Republic, undoing Tribalism across the entire board, and similar things.

CK2+ is a mod that deepens the core gameplay. It makes the existing features better.

Basically, HIP is for playing your way, CK2+ is for playing the "intended" way but better.

You could say that.
However, CK2Plus also has the "shattered realm" decision at game start, where you can also randomize the world to a certain extent.
But I agree, Plus just feels like the game vanilla should have been, while HIP has more focus on modularity.

 

[dskod1]

You could say that.
However, CK2Plus also has the "shattered realm" decision at game start, where you can also randomize the world to a certain extent.
But I agree, Plus just feels like the game vanilla should have been, while HIP has more focus on modularity.

HIP also has that. As well as the option to customise the rules of the game at the start. Such as whether you want to use historical de jure empires or not, using either the vanilla crusade mechanics or the EMF ones. ETC

 

[TCWolffe]

There are definitely aspects of both I enjoy. The HIP/SWMH map is stunning to the point it makes it hard to use the vanilla map, but I find that HIP overall leans so far to "historically accurate" that it can suffocate even "plausible, but alternate history" out. I get wanting to be "historical", but not "historic" (subtle, but important distinction). I can open Wikipedia or watch a documentary on Youtube if I want "historic" (which I'm usually doing while playing... :9). CK2+, on the other hand provides narrative support for ahistorical decisions with some appropriate challenges to overcome in order to "jump the tracks" of history. Both have strengths for immersion (SWMH with culturally localized naming and CK2+ with it's myriad of minor titles and localizations making many empires and culture's "court" seem unique, for example).

The factions are probably what I miss the most when on a HIP game. When there's only a revolt faction (for all intents), then you basically have a threshold for worry or not worry and some quick solutions. When there's interest factions, I care about making them happy rather than just caring about not making them revolt. Just one more way that simple feedback mechanisms spur the self-generated creation of goals aside from painting the map one color. I do prefer EMF's crown laws, however, as you can run a given realm size entirely different ways with the myriad of laws that activate other sub-laws (and a very helpful way to see overall levy efficiency).

An a-la-carte of CK2+ and EMF mechanics on an SWMH/NBRT map with all the flavor decisions/events of both (minus overlaps, of course) would by the ideal for me, but that would be a massive amount of work and the teams have some very design philosophies.

 

[LordPeter]

An a-la-carte of CK2+ and EMF mechanics on an SWMH/NBRT map with all the flavor decisions/events of both (minus overlaps, of course) would by the ideal for me, but that would be a massive amount of work and the teams have some very design philosophies.

I would love this, too.
However, the demand for procession power would probably suffocate my PC then

 

[Rylock]

I would love this, too.
However, the demand for procession power would probably suffocate my PC then

I'm not even certain what "EMF mechanics" might be. If someone said what they were -- in detail -- we could always evaluate them on a case-by-case basis.

Which doesn't mean "we grab HIP's code and put it in CK2+", but we could certainly do our own version of it, if we thought it matched our design philosophy.

The map is a no-go, however...I doubt they'd give permission to use such a thing even if we wanted to use it, which we would not.

 

[LordPeter]

I'm not even certain what "EMF mechanics" might be. If someone said what they were -- in detail -- we could always evaluate them on a case-by-case basis.

Which doesn't mean "we grab HIP's code and put it in CK2+", but we could certainly do our own version of it, if we thought it matched our design philosophy.

The map is a no-go, however...I doubt they'd give permission to use such a thing even if we wanted to use it, which we would not.

Fair enough.
Truth to be told, I hardly play HIP lately, so the latest additions to EMF I know only from reading their changelog . If someone would like to point out what is actually working well, then that mechanic could be suggested.

Also, I like your design philosphy more. That's why I seldomly play HIP now.

About the map part I know, I even took part in a discussion where I was told their reasons to handle it this way. I have come to dream of using Crack'dTooth's instead, but now that I actually mod a few things myself I see what a huge amount of work that would be, and in my head postpone it for "later".


So if I say I want both mods combined, this is more daydreaming than demanding or suggesting anything really. Just wanted to agree that both mods are pretty grand, and this community has produced some true jewels.
Actually combining all the mods I like would end up like my Skyrim installation, which I can't play now anymore because one of the 255 mods must have caused a problem...

 

[-Hiki-]

I have played both mods and to summarize:

Superior about CK2 plus:
Heresies and Religion in general
Faction system (Vastly superior to anything HIP has to offer, I really like this system)
Crowned (Has a vast impact on the Factions system aswell)
Balance

Superior about HIP:
SWMH (Map and other things)
Cultural Flavour (For example titles change according to culture which brings alot more immersion than some english localisation)
VIET (Flavour events)
EMF (http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Extended_Mechanics_&_Flavor_(EMF) for those who wondered what EMF does, but in essence its about: Crown laws, Levy % and Combat tactics)

 

[ogarrr]

The localisation of the various countries in HIP is what draws me more towards that mod. There's something satisfying about seeing the name for England change depending on who rules it, as well as the counties (Jorvik becomes a latinised version under the normans then York under the English)
I alaso very much like Arko's coat of arms which are I reckon are vastly superior to the vanilla ones.
However there are various bits of CK2+ that I prefer such as the the heresy systyem, faction system, the introduction of the Carolingian empire .
I am of the mind hwoever that in historical gsg's balance is less important than hsitorical accuracy. But that's an opinion more than anything.

At the moment I'm playing HIP but I intend to give CK2+ another go when i get a better computer as it runs like a snail on mine currently.

 

[Fall_ark]

One thing I really like about HIP is that there's no random personality trait appearance/removal events for the players. It's just jarring to have your 25+ Martial character lose Brave and get Craven during one single war, especially if you're playing a historical character.

 

[Slayen]

I'm going to say something heretical.

I don't like the SWMH map. I don't find it at all pleasing to look at and I think a number of the provinces are either too small or oddly shaped and thus harder to click on than they should be.

I honestly much MUCH prefer the CK2+ map, even with its eye searing patchwork of colors.

 

[mechl]

I have played both mods and to summarize:

Superior about CK2 plus:
Heresies and Religion in general
Faction system (Vastly superior to anything HIP has to offer, I really like this system)
Crowned (Has a vast impact on the Factions system aswell)
Balance

Superior about HIP:
SWMH (Map and other things)
Cultural Flavour (For example titles change according to culture which brings alot more immersion than some english localisation)
VIET (Flavour events)
EMF (http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Extended_Mechanics_&_Flavor_(EMF) for those who wondered what EMF does, but in essence its about: Crown laws, Levy % and Combat tactics)

If you have some knowledge of how to move around code you can actually combine quite a bit of that. I use the SWMH map but when it comes to most decisions use CK2 Plus so I can have the coronation and much more superior faction system. I also ended up modding more of India and the steppe into my SWMH map (and removed some African provinces to help reduce lag a little bit) but still find it funny how I still have 40 more provinces than HIP yet my game lags far more if I were to use the base version of HIP (something tells me an event/decision is causing most their lag). With the fact that it seems all too likely Paradox is going to add China eventually and will probably help further reduce the affect of provinces on gameplay in turn I wanted to ensure I'd still be able to enjoy the larger map in the long run (and the HIP devs have already said they'll never extend the map again).

 

[Rylock]

I also ended up modding more of India and the steppe into my SWMH map (and removed some African provinces to help reduce lag a little bit) but still find it funny how I still have 40 more provinces than HIP yet my game lags far more if I were to use the base version of HIP (something tells me an event/decision is causing most their lag).

With all the events that CK2Plus adds, I had to go through and do an optimization pass on both our stuff AND all the vanilla events, using pre-triggers and better trigger management and also arranging some of our bigger event chains so they used all triggered events rather than constantly-running events...if I didn't do that, the mod would run far slower than it already does.

And, yeah, it's possible for a single event chain to make the entire game chug. In my first version of the coronation events, the event that checked if someone was attending the coronation feast who was a rival of someone else also in attendance brought the entire game to its knees...every 20 days the game would pause for a few seconds as it processed that one event. As soon as I figured out why I went "whoops!" and re-worked it to not do that. It's an easy mistake to make.