CK2 Dev Diary #81 - Cleaning up the Map

CK2 Dev Diary #81 - Cleaning up the Map

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rageair

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Greetings!

The last few Dev Diaries have had you visit the Cartographer’s office to look at several reworked areas of the map - while there are more, we don’t want to show them all in a row, lest we risk you getting bored of them!

Today we will instead take a look at a minor free feature, an optional new Game Rule that might just help those of us that really can’t stand irregular borders! Like the map changes, this change will arrive in the free update that will accompany the next expansion. This feature is a pet project of mine, and an attempt to cure situations such as these:
Bordergore_example.png

As you can see in this example, Scotland holds a province in mainland Anatolia. There’s no logical way for them to control this territory - there’s no land connection, it’s not connected via ports, and it’s not part of their De Jure area.

The Game Rule is called ‘Exclave Independence', and aims to do just that - set exclaves independent. Being an optional Game Rule, it’s very modular, and is mainly intended as a tool for increasing immersion.
Exclave_GR.png


The Scotland example pictured previously is really the worst case scenario, and would be covered by any of the settings. As the ruler of Scotland dies, the game will try to identify any ‘exclaves’ and take appropriate action. If there are rulers whose land is completely situated in an exclave, they will be set independent, otherwise a peasant leader will seize control of the land. In this case the result will look like this:
Bordergore_cured.png


I can tell you that, if you’re like me, the difference playing with this Game Rule is like night and day. After a few hundred years you’ll no longer have a map that makes you want to claw your eyes out! As I mentioned earlier there are many different settings, and here is a full list of them:
Added the ‘Exclave Independence’ Game Rule, with the purpose of eliminating disconnected land on succession. As long as the new ruler during a succession isn’t at war, their exclaves should be set independent according to the setting. If the AI is at war during succession, they will try to remove exclaves once every year until such a time they are no longer at war (does not apply to Players). Settings:
  • Off - The default option, no removal.
  • Limited - Exclaves of Independent Rulers at peace will be removed on succession unless they are connected to the Capital area with gaps no larger than one County, via a naval path or part of the characters primary De Jure territory.
  • Limited (Naval) - Exclaves of Independent Rulers at peace will be removed on succession unless they are connected to the Capital area with gaps no larger than one County, via a limited naval path (1000 distance units) or part of the characters primary De Jure territory.
  • Significant - Exclaves of Independent Rulers at peace will be removed on succession unless they are connected via a naval path or part of the characters primary De Jure territory.
  • Harsh - Exclaves of Independent Rulers at peace will be removed on succession unless as they are connected via a limited naval path (1000 distance units) or part of the characters primary De Jure.
  • Total - Exclaves of Independent Rulers at peace will be removed on succession unless as they are connected via a limited naval path (1000 distance units). Disables Achievements.
To show a more tangible example, I loaded up an old save and added the Game Rule to it. It looked like this:
Exclave_ex2.png


After the death of the ruler of the Mongol Empire (the light blue spots) the result produced this:
Exclave_cure_mongol.png


And after the death of the King of Bengal:
Exclave_cure2.png

As you can see, the two Mongol provinces were overtaken by Peasant Leaders as they were much too far away from their steppe overlords. Bengals land, on the other hand, simply had the vassals declare independence, as they held no land in non-exclave land.

I hope this small feature will be of interest to some of you, in the next DD we will return to the cartographer's office with another exciting update!

Please note that the time between Dev Diaries will be irregular, as we’re still early in the development cycle.
 

riadach

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Will this mean that Jerusalem will become independent once the winner of the crusade dies?
 

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Glad to see other features other than map changes are on the way. The nect patch is so far looking good!
 

Kayden_II

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A dream comes true !

Edit: Question was answered in the dev-diary.
 
Last edited:

Nyrael

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Will this mean that Jerusalem will become independent once the winner of the crusade dies?
I really hope so. It would get as a step closer to real Crusader States and away from the ahistorical Crusader Colonies (of course, I hope PDS gives more rewards for bringing victory to the Crusade to make up for this).
 

Vagn

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Looks good.
Would it be possible to split the rule in two and have a rule for the naval distance for the limited cases?
A dynamic option dependent on shipbuilding or legalism would be ideal.
 

Narr666

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That´s really cool. I am not soooo pissed about border gore, but I look forward for new rising counts and countries. Good work!
 

Meneth

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Will this mean that Jerusalem will become independent once the winner of the crusade dies?
Sure, if far enough away, and you set the rule strict enough.

It's nice but BAH border gore is the spice of life.
No purging is still the default game rule, so you'll get to keep that spice :)
 

Silversweeeper

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Neat!

- What is the difference between "Limited" and "Limited (Naval)"? The former appears to be missing the naval distance units, but is there something else?

- Is this handled through an on_death script, or mostly hardcoded?

- Is the amount of distance units and number of counties between borders moddable?

- Could we restrict it by number of sea zones through modding?

- Can we replace "primary de jure" with "any de jure" through modding?

- Could we add different harshness depending on e.g. culture/religion (e.g. same religion + same culture land allows two counties between borders, same culture group + same religion group, same exact religion (but different culture group), or same exact culture (but different religion group) allows one county between borders, different culture group and different religion group at the same time makes the exclave break free at all times)?

- Will there be an event giving the newly independent ruler the option to swear fealty to their de jure liege if they have the proper religion, to prevent a small exclave from suicidally trying to remain independent (e.g. the Dorylaion above might be better off swearing fealty to the ERE than trying to stand alone)?

- If multiple counties next to one another would be freed by peasants, would they come under the control of the same peasant?

- Would the peasant revolters seize/recreate any already held higher titles in the area?

- If a vassal's land is wholly within exclaves, but those exclaves are disconnected, do they keep all of their land and vassals when going independent or lose their own exclaves?

- Are any claims awarded? Obviously, that might make the AI recreate the bordergore, but the person that loses the land probably still think it should be theirs...

- Can exclaves chain from one another, e.g. counties like A-A-B-A-B-A-A-A-B-A lets realm A keep the rightmost exclave because of at most one county betweenone exclave and the next?
 

Meneth

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- What is the difference between "Limited" and "Limited (Naval)"? The former appears to be missing the naval distance units, but is there something else?
The former means any naval path will do, regardless of length. The latter, it can be at most 1000 distance units.

- Is this handled through an on_death script, or mostly hardcoded?
Entirely in script. We added a few new triggers to make it work.
Since it is script, I'll only answer the stuff that isn't simple. Skipping a few where I don't know the answer too.

- Is the amount of distance units and number of counties between borders moddable?
Yes to the former, no to the latter. The pathing only supports single gaps due to implementation limitations of the trigger.

- Could we restrict it by number of sea zones through modding?
Not easily, at least.

- Will there be an event giving the newly independent ruler the option to swear fealty to their de jure liege if they have the proper religion, to prevent a small exclave from suicidally trying to remain independent (e.g. the Dorylaion above might be better off swearing fealty to the ERE than trying to stand alone)?
Not at the moment.

- If multiple counties next to one another would be freed by peasants, would they come under the control of the same peasant?
IIRC, yes. Alex can confirm.

- Can exclaves chain from one another, e.g. counties like A-A-B-A-B-A-A-A-B-A lets realm A keep the rightmost exclave because of at most one county betweenone exclave and the next?
Yep.
 

riadach

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Sure, if far enough away, and you set the rule strict enough.


No purging is still the default game rule, so you'll get to keep that spice :)
How will that work, if you hold the title yourself? A peasant rebellion? Will the AI be inclined to award it to a family member to keep the title within the dynasty?
 

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Fantastic stuff. One thing I would be careful about though would be if a rule was turned on, and a player character died while a large vassal rebellion was occurring. The rebel leaders realm could create all sorts of exclaves, and land would be lost, even though the rebellion might be crushed quickly.
 

Chlodio

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I love that idea, but...

otherwise a peasant leader will seize control of the land
I really don't like that. I read something about Navarresse exclaves where local nobles seized power, wouldn't it make more sense if instead of generating a new character, one of the barons in the province would seize the control of the capital county? Also, many crusaders left their counties to their second sons, so if the King of Kent becomes the King of Italy, wouldn't it make more sense if his second son (who got nothing from his father's demise) would flee to Kent and take over it?

I'd go with the following priorities:
  1. Landless claimant.
  2. Local baron.
  3. Generated peasant leader.
 

IndigoRage

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Would the start date of EU4 even be possible with limited? Burgundy would probably work, but Austria has an exclave at the 1444 start that I don't think would be possible even with limited.
 

rageair

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Fantastic stuff. One thing I would be careful about though would be if a rule was turned on, and a player character died while a large vassal rebellion was occurring. The rebel leaders realm could create all sorts of exclaves, and land would be lost, even though the rebellion might be crushed quickly.
Ongoing wars will prevent the exclave removal from happening, this includes revolts. I think this is for the best. :)

Would the start date of EU4 even be possible with limited? Burgundy would probably work, but Austria has an exclave at the 1444 start that I don't think would be possible even with limited.
Austria is a member of the HRE, and internal border gore is allowed as that was intensely historical!
 

IndigoRage

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I love that idea, but...



I really don't like that. I read something about Navarresse exclaves where local nobles seized power, wouldn't it make more sense if instead of generating a new character, one of the barons in the province would seize the control of the capital county? Also, many crusaders left their counties to their second sons, so if the King of Kent becomes the King of Italy, wouldn't it make more sense if his second son (who got nothing from his father's demise) would flee to Kent and take over it?

I'd go with the following priorities:
  1. Landless claimant.
  2. Local baron.
  3. Generated peasant leader.
I think the land going to peasant leaders could be somewhat better as it actually preserves local culture rather than the typical conclusion where half the map says "GREEK".
 

IndigoRage

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Ongoing wars will prevent the exclave removal from happening, this includes revolts. I think this is for the best. :)


Austria is a member of the HRE, and internal border gore is allowed as that was intensely historical!
If that's the case, this may be one of the greatest little changes to this game ever. Little Uighur Sunni cultural exclaves ending up in pagan Finland years after the Mongol conquests because Mongols are terrible at handing out land is a thing of the past. Now to make it so Ghaznavids, Seljuks, Timurids, Rum, etc have a ghost of a chance of happening in 90% of games.