CK2 Dev Diary #69: Another Journey to Tibet

CK2 Dev Diary #69: Another Journey to Tibet

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rageair

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Greetings!

We’ve previously had a DevDiary about Tibet, where we talked about the new provinces, cultures and religions in the area. That was quite some time ago, and we’ve since then improved the area even further! We want to ensure that the area is both interesting and fun to play in, so we’ve put some work into making it just that - with an improved title setup and additional interesting cultures.

Tibet 2.0.png

The province density in the area has been increased - Counties in Tibet are now roughly the same size as those in Persia or Transoxiania, both in order to present a more appealing historical scenario, and to make the area less of a chore to actually play in (with the old Counties, it could take months to move armies between them).

Note that for those who fear that this will decrease performance - we’ve done plenty of work on it, and all our tests show this version of the game to be the fastest yet.

Tibet 2.0 Cultures.png

In the very earliest start dates (769 and 867) there are still going to be remnants of two ancient cultures that existed in western and northern Tibet, the Zhangzhung and the Sumpa. While they are subjugated by the Tibetans (Bödpa) they still retain their traditions. Both of these cultures are known by the Chinese for having ‘Kingdoms ruled by Women’, and thus have access to the Absolute Cognatic inheritance law much like the Basque.

De Jure.png

The setup of De Jure kingdoms has changed as a consequence of the new Counties - now Xia is a De Jure title along with Kham, Ü-Tsang, Guge and Nepal. This gives the Xia more staying power, enhancing their historical role. Note that all titles in the area have plenty of cultural naming options, so the kingdom won’t be named Xia unless ruled by a Tangut-cultured character, for example.

Between Tibet, the new Tarim basin and the enhanced Persia you will now see a lot more movement, trade and conquest between the areas on the eastern half of the map. It will hopefully no longer feel as if the steppes and India are ‘worlds of their own’, but rather parts of a greater whole.
 

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Will female Tibetan rulers have access to polyandry as they did historically?
 

insoman

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Changtang/North Tibet plateau is a limit land for human condition with the worst environment even in Tibet. Dont know why so much counties in this region.
 
Last edited:

luanmameili[LM]

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Will female Tibetan rulers have access to polyandry as they did historically?
At least, I hope that there can be a new code (such as max_husbands), which is for modders only. (just like enatic_succession)
 

Karl244

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Changtang/North Tibet plateau is a limit land for human condition with the worst environment even in Tibet. Dont know why so much counties in this region.
Maybe these are 1 or 2 holding provinces?
 

rageair

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Will female Tibetan rulers have access to polyandry as they did historically?
Unfortunately not. :(

Changtang/North Tibet plateau is a limit land for human condition with the worst environment even in Tibet. Dont know why so much counties in this region.
Many counties does not equal high development - most counties in the northern plateau region (with a few exceptions) are 1-2 holding tribal provinces. They're there primarily to make playing in the area bearable from a movement standpoint. :)
 

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Will female Tibetan rulers have access to polyandry as they did historically?
They DON'T had polyandry in this sense. Tibetan polyandry is different than many people her claim. The concept in Tibet was that multiple brothers shared a wife. It was NOT a wife choice to have multiple husbands. It was a male right, not a right of the woman.
 

Mewtini

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Thank Beelzebub's crusty warts, I was hoping Tibet would see some action. It always felt off to me, having that giant blank space on the screen.
 

luanmameili[LM]

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Unfortunately not.
Then, will it be moddable?
For example, can I let a culture (or religion) have "max_husbands = 4" which allows a female ruler have multiple husbands? (Matrilineally, of course)
 

Nyrael

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Then, will it be moddable?
For example, can I let a culture (or religion) have "max_husbands = 4" which allows a female ruler have multiple husbands? (Matrilineally, of course)
"Unfortunately" makes it sound like the wanted it in, but couldn't do it. In other words, if it was moddable, they would have put it in.
 

henzington

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No polyandry makes sense as I doubt the game is coded to handle it without massive changes
 

CaptainPolyp

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They DON'T had polyandry in this sense. Tibetan polyandry is different than many people her claim. The concept in Tibet was that multiple brothers shared a wife. It was NOT a wife choice to have multiple husbands. It was a male right, not a right of the woman.
That's what I've read too.

Although I don't know much more. Does polyandry even apply to these two cultures? Do we know anything about that? These were very early cultures, which disappeared a long time ago. Not sure data even exist on this particular subject.
The wikipedia page about polyandry in Tibet does not cite any specific culture, and even imply that this practice still existed until recently (so it is not specifically tied to Zhangzhung and Sumpa cultures).

I don't know much in this matter but if someone has some input, I would be interested.
 
Last edited:

rageair

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Boo!

Also what's up with the Tibetan Empire in 769? I don't think it's historical they only control a small part ofTibet?
I've opened up the Tibetan empire using ctrl-left click. It's still as big as it used to be, I just wanted to show off the vassal structure.
 

WotanAnubis

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So will the Zhangzhung and the Sumpa also have access to... what was it called... Monastic Feudalism? Or will they be restricted to just regular Feudalism?
 

Caspian Mortis

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I've opened up the Tibetan empire using ctrl-left click.
I didn't even know you could do that, interesting to know!

Looks good, but still not even a rough guess as to a release date?
I'd say within 4-8 weeks. Most dev diaries we've ever had for a CK2 expansion is 26. This is the 20th for Jade Dragon, so certainly before Christmas. I think November, with a slight chance of October.
 
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Enriador

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What are the new Game Rules coming, if any?
Note that for those who fear that this will decrease performance - we’ve done plenty of work on it, and all our tests show this version of the game to be the fastest yet.
Can you elaborate? What about some graphs like you did for us in The Reaper's Due?
 
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