CK2 Dev Diary #50: A Reason for War

CK2 Dev Diary #50: A Reason for War

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rageair

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Greetings!

The weather is slowly recovering from the chaotic mixture of snow/rain/hail/sun that has plagued the Swedish April and work is starting on the next, yet undisclosed, expansion! The next expansion is going to have a specific theme which most features will be focused around (we can unfortunately not go into any detail in this DD), though we also want to add some features that can be of use regardless of who or where you choose to play. One of these is planned to be a ‘Casus Belli Expansion’, where we want to add new and oft-requested CBs to the game. The Focus is going to be on CBs that enhance the early and late game (as well as a few more roleplay-focused CBs). While this is by no means a final list, it’s what we’ve made so far:


Forced Vassalization
This is a CB that can be used against neighboring realms to force them to become your vassal. To avoid making it too powerful it’s quite heavily limited, only realms that are of a lower tier, under 30 realm size and where the ruler is of either your culture group or religion are valid targets. It also has a direct cost (prestige). For example; this can allow England to, with time, extend ‘protection’ to the smaller Welsh and Irish realms.


De Jure Duchy Claim
This CB was added to try to avoid situations where massive realms would fight over one single county, essentially destroying their armies for near no gain. Players often think these types of wars aren’t worth fighting, and do not usually declare them themselves - instead they turn to Holy Wars or invite duchy claimants to expand in a more meaningful way. This CB provides interesting opportunity for conquest at the point where you form your first Kingdom or Empire. Any vassals present in conquered lands are preserved, and this CB also comes with a prestige cost.


Ducal County Conquest
At the very start of a game you might be stuck waiting for fabricated claims a very, very long time if you’re unlucky. This CB is available to Count and Duke tier characters, and allows you to go to war over any County that are part of a Duchy you hold land in, as long as the Duchy has no holder. The CB has a cost of prestige and gold, making it similar to a fabricated claim (as that’s essentially what it is). As an example, this gives count-tier characters in Ireland and the HRE an alternate way to claim a Duke-tier title, presuming that you can save up enough prestige and money.


Great Conquest
Unless you are playing as a Muslim, Nomad or Tribal-cultured ruler (who have access to invasions) you have no real way to expand in a meaningful way when you are playing as the ruler of a very large realm. While we still want expansion to be difficult, we also want to give players more static opportunities to expand. This CB is available to very powerful realms (at least 200 realm size) and can be used to claim an entire Kingdom from another character. Though the catch is that you have to fight someone that is as strong or stronger than you are, and using the CB itself costs a massive amount of prestige and piety.


Free Hostages
A long-requested CB, this allows you to go to war against a character in order to free any kidnapped concubines or wives, and release certain characters from prison (i.e. friends and dynastants). Rescued characters will, most often, be moved back to your court. It will also take hostages in turn, imprisoning a random close member of the target’s family!

It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? Otherwise it'll be of use primarily for freeing concubines (something that has been requested for a long time!).


Note that these CBs are by no means finished, and are currently being tested internally. Feel free to comment and feedback on them though, and also feel free to tell us what CBs you would like to see added!
 

Thanat0S

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Nice additions!
BTW, will this new DLC (being centered on warfare) come with some tweaks on how retinues, levies and mercenaries actually work?

Thanks.
 

Frank327

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Looks cool! Do make sure that christian feudal realms don't start acting like tribal realms though. Having to work hard to get claims and expand is part of the fun.

Also where can I place a bet for this being an expansion centred around warfare?
 

killswitch

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Greetings!




De Jure Duchy Claim
This CB was added to try to avoid situations where massive realms would fight over one single county, essentially destroying their armies for near no gain. Players often think these types of wars aren’t worth fighting, and do not usually declare them themselves - instead they turn to Holy Wars or invite duchy claimants to expand in a more meaningful way. This CB provides interesting opportunity for conquest at the point where you form your first Kingdom or Empire. Any vassals present in conquered lands are preserved, and this CB also comes with a prestige cost.


Ducal County Conquest
At the very start of a game you might be stuck waiting for fabricated claims a very, very long time if you’re unlucky. This CB is available to Count and Duke tier characters, and allows you to go to war over any County that are part of a Duchy you hold land in, as long as the Duchy has no holder. The CB has a cost of prestige and gold, making it similar to a fabricated claim (as that’s essentially what it is). As an example, this gives count-tier characters in Ireland and the HRE an alternate way to claim a Duke-tier title, presuming that you can save up enough prestige and money.
Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long to put these in. I look forward to their implementation.
 

Chlodio

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Prestige is mana now? If you made wars expensive and less desirable you wouldn't need mana-mechanics.

Free Hostages CB makes no sense. You do realise purpose of the hostages? In many cases hostages were the only thing maintaining the truce. If one would go to war for their release, their host would have no reason to keep them alive.
 
Last edited:

esbenmf

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Free Hostages
A long-requested CB, this allows you to go to war against a character in order to free any kidnapped concubines or wives, and release certain characters from prison (i.e. friends and dynastants). Rescued characters will, most often, be moved back to your court. It will also take hostages in turn, imprisoning a random close member of the target’s family!

It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? Otherwise it'll be of use primarily for freeing concubines (something that has been requested for a long time!).
This is a much needed addition, and I would like to extend it to cover kidnapped husbands, wives and children too, possibly also kidnapped or imprisoned vassals as well. The risk of the kidnapper killing my kidnapped relative in order not to have them released, is something I will have to live with then.
 

Frank327

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Also can I suggest a piety cost to some CB's? Going to war without a claim isn't a very christian thing to do and bypasses the authority of the church.
 

Kayden_II

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That are great changes ! ...
Now, you could even consider to terminate the feature to fabricate claims since I've always thought, that it's one of the main-reasons for bordergore and unnecessary wars + since it's rather against the "spirit" of the game to gain claims/cbs via dynasties.
 

Voigt

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Interesting Changes, but I am not sure yet if this soften up of the strict CB Rules of CK2 is a good thing, we will see in time.

About your Question:
It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? Otherwise it'll be of use primarily for freeing concubines (something that has been requested for a long time!).
I would like an automatic event for the defender, if you attack and the defender has a close relative in prison. There he can decide to have mercy, maim or kill the hostage, whereas most Characters would maim, cruel would kill and kind would spare the hostages.

Also it should take a huge prestige hit to attack, if the defender has relatives, maybe even decrease opinion with your dynasty. But all in all, it should be allowed in my opinion, hard restriction are always sub-optimal.
 

sreckom92

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Free Hostages
A long-requested CB, this allows you to go to war against a character in order to free any kidnapped concubines or wives, and release certain characters from prison (i.e. friends and dynastants). Rescued characters will, most often, be moved back to your court. It will also take hostages in turn, imprisoning a random close member of the target’s family!

It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? Otherwise it'll be of use primarily for freeing concubines (something that has been requested for a long time!).
Close family members, such as children, grandchildren, parents and siblings should be excluded from this CB.
Like @Chlodio said, it makes little sense, and defies the actual purpose of a hostage. Well, the purpose of very important hostages...
But the ability to start a war over an imprisoned concubine or wife, friend or lover....that's very cool.

Oh, and it would be glorious to have more events and decisions regarding your close family members in hostage.
 

rageair

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This is a much needed addition, and I would like to extend it to cover kidnapped husbands, wives and children too, possibly also kidnapped or imprisoned vassals as well. The risk of the kidnapper killing my kidnapped relative in order not to have them released, is something I will have to live with then.
It should cover all those cases except kidnapped vassals. Note that you still can't actually declare the war if they have a close relative in their prison though (as it stands now).

Also can I suggest a piety cost to some CB's? Going to war without a claim isn't a very christian thing to do and bypasses the authority of the church.
Some of them will have a piety cost, we're still testing and tweaking to see what feels right. :)
 

Keitaro_Ura

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I hope they will have a big cost, or claims will just become useless for feudal players. Although I like those CBs.
 
Last edited:

Haakon_XIII

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The cassus belli expansion is from DLC or free patch?
 

Blackfang12

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Hmm... One casus belli that could be interesting from a Roleplay perspective is Vengeance. Say if a close friend or relative was unjustly murdered by someone outside your realm, you could maybe first be able to demand that they are handed over, if it's denied you declare war. Upon victory you imprison the murderer to do with as you wish. In essence it's like the revolts that happen when you fail to arrest a vassal
 

_Perun_

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I absolutely love the CBs.

I have a question, though: shall we expect 2.7.2 patch or are we having an appointment straight with 2.8.0?
 

Asiak

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It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? Otherwise it'll be of use primarily for freeing concubines (something that has been requested for a long time!).
Yes yes it is.

Although the instances are rare sometimes they do occur.

Honestly I would think it needed more for close dynastic family members and less needed for captured concubines.
 

Heiliges Thüringens Reich

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  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
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  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
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I liked them all, but specially Ducal County Conquest. I love playing the 2 initial starts and it takes a LOT of time to do anything meaningful when you play as independent counts/dukes there!
 
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