CK2 Dev Diary #36: The Witching Hour

CK2 Dev Diary #36: The Witching Hour

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DorlasAnther

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oh that sounds so Khorney. ...and now i shall bash your face in! :p
Why should screams of joy sound Khorney? Slaanesh FTW!
 
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BlackPrince

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Baltic, Slavic and Finnic pagans get “The Cold Ones” (evil shamans)
For Slavic religion you can simply use some kind of Sect/Followers of Marzana/Mora/Morana/Morena/Marena/Śmiertka/Śmierć/Śmiercicha.
For Baltic could get some hidden Order of Patrims.
For Finnic religion we have Tuonela Gathering.

Also could you stop treat three different religions as if they were SO similar. How would it feel if people started using terms Norwegians and Danes to describe people living in Sweden. I guess it's highly offensive for Arabs.
 
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For Slavic religion you can simply use some kind of Sect/Followers of Marzana/Mora/Morana/Morena/Marena/Śmiertka/Śmierć/Śmiercicha.
Imo Zmey, as father of monsters, would be better.
 
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Alcadizzar19

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... How would it feel if people started using terms Norwegians and Danes to describe people living in Sweden...
Look at the silly Scandis, thinking they are all different.
 
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austinngeb

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Omg, when can I preorder? :D

Question: Are Assassins restricted to Muslims?

Because as we all know, Assassins and Templars have been fighting a shadow war since the dawn of time :p

Since I suppose you know where I'm going with this - a more complex question:

If Assassins are Muslim-only
And If I mod it just not to be
Would I still get achievements, or is it not Ironman-compatible?

Also - do devil worshippers collaborate? And in fact, do any Secret Societies collaborate or behave mechanically like culture-based counterparts? I'm thinking stuff like cultural exchange or something, maybe get some missions from your counterparts.

This is my question as well. Will there be Non Muslim assasian societies that can be joined..
 

Jorlem

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"Abrahamics" refers to Abraham so... one would almost have to say "yes"
...

I know who Abraham is. This is a case of the internet failing to properly convey tone, as I was saying that out of surprise and confusion that Jews would have a secret society dedicated to worshiping Satan. I would have thought that that society (and the variants for other religions) would be reserved for religions that have a "war between good and evil" narrative as part of their theology.
 

Alcadizzar19

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...

I know who Abraham is. This is a case of the internet failing to properly convey tone, as I was saying that out of surprise and confusion that Jews would have a secret society dedicated to worshiping Satan. I would have thought that that society (and the variants for other religions) would be reserved for religions that have a "war between good and evil" narrative as part of their theology.
Sons of the Accuser. There you go.

They wish to do to those they hate what their Father did to Job and they don't care about the price their hate is so great.
 
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Jorlem

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Sons of the Accuser. There you go.
Not really, given that Hasatan was a position in God's "court", and was more like a loyal opposition than an outright enemy.
 
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Axe99

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Cheers for the DD Doomdark :). These secret societies sound very interesting, as does that "other game...."
 

Wagonlitz

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Now, a lot of the content for the Demon Worshippers is hard to explain in terms of placebo effects and natural phenomena, so if you don’t care for the supernatural I suggest simply not joining those Societies (because rooting out their covens and persecuting them through your Court Chaplain is reasonably historical and adds flavor to the game.)
Or perhaps you could start writing these things ambiguously again instead of having to make them clear cut fantasy thereby forcing people to either live with it or ditch a quite large portion of content. And before you say that most people don't have fantasy switched off, then I don't have it switched off despite not liking the downright fantasy stuff. I just think that what you have to give away (where many things are ambiguous and could well be explained) is worth more to keep than the annoyance of having the downright fantasy stuff---for now at least. (Especially given that things like immortality are something you can just decide not to do and the AI don't do them).

In fact it probably wouldn't really be that hard to come up with slight alterrations (perhaps even just of the fluff text) to get the ambiguity back.
Now obviously I don't know what the things they can do do, but you said the tainted touch is a health curse. Going by that and keeping the name in mind then you e.g. could have that you put something toxic on your hands which then gets transferred to the vic when you greet him.
For instance the secret society could have discovered some "cursed soil" (alpha radioactive material) which upon ingestion slowly withers you away. So put it on your hands and thereby have it transfer to your enemy. You rinse your hands thoroughly, whereas he just goes eating and hence ingests some of the cursed soil meaning that his health will be negatively effected by the radiation which continually will be emitted inside him.
There you have something which to people of the time would be magic, but is perfectly explainable.
 
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Alcadizzar19

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secretfire

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Sounds like the Dev. team is hard at work!!!! I think this sounds great, but then again I thought conclave sounded perfect until I saw the reviews. Usually I wait till the DLC go on sale before buying them, might have to get this one out the gate if it's good to counteract all the OCD types. A good story matters more then anything else. Gotta show my support for fantasy content, after all.

Can't wait to hear about the gnostics, the Catholics spent centuries trying to stamp them out.
 
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Nickele

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If the personal decisions are used by the player at the witching hour, are the curses half-price?
I understood that reference before EA ruined it.

Will societies be able to reveal themselves when they feel sufficiently powerful? For instance, if a Secret Shi'ite gains near enough the equivalent of the Arabian Empire, can they proclaim "HAHA! I was a Shi'ite all along!"

More specifically: can Devil Cults do this?
 
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TheDarkMaster

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So, can you tell what missions a secret society has set without being a member, or is that text for "no mission set" going to be replaced down the line?
 

ButcherOfTorfan

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I know who Abraham is. This is a case of the internet failing to properly convey tone, as I was saying that out of surprise and confusion that Jews would have a secret society dedicated to worshiping Satan. I would have thought that that society (and the variants for other religions) would be reserved for religions that have a "war between good and evil" narrative as part of their theology.
I assume (could be wrong), that a Cabbalistic society for Jews would be the localisation of the 'Hermetic Society' we can see in the OP. Honestly, it wouldn't make sense for an esoteric/mystical sect to take up the 'demon worshippers' position.

I'm assuming (once again), that we have an intrigue/supernatural society in Lucifer's Own, a non-supernatural intrigue society in 'the Assassins' and a less aggressive 'Hermetic Society'.

If I'm right, you can't really hammer them for not being historically accurate, since the 'dark power' based society isn't supposed to be historically accurate.

Disclaimer: I know literally nothing about this, so I could be making an arse of myself.
 
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Djaevlenselv

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In my comment on the last Dev Diary I mentioned that some of the militaristic Holy Orders in game would now be more appropriate as proper Monastic Orders, and now we see the Assassins, the very in-game Holy Order of the Shia as a Secret Society, which makes me wonder if the two will be properly tied together in-game? As in, the Secret Society and the Holy Order will appear at the same time, and all characters in the Holy Order will automatically be members of the Society? And if so, could something similar be done with other Holy Orders like the Bektashi, who were really a Sufi mystic group?

Regarding the devil worship, while I do think it could be fun, some of it rings just a little bit too Dungeons & Dragons-y in my ears. Particularly the Germanics: In actual pagan Scandinavia the type of person who might be considered to possess dangerous magical powers would probably be a sort of shamanistic religious specialist, like a völva, who might be thought to have control over local nature spirits (similar to how you are portraying defensive pagans, which seems alright), but to basically have a cult devoted to Hel or jötnar, well that's just straight up Dungeons & Dragons "I choose an evil aligned patron deity for my character". It's an element of pure fantasy fiction.
The defensive pagans, as mentioned, do not seem objectionable to me as a concept, though it really doesn't make too much sense to have evil shamans as any sort of society, secret or otherwise. Religious specialists from many cultures who fall into the shaman archetype seem to mostly have been solitary people, who were both feared and revered for their contact with and control over spirits/deities. Shamans regarded as controlling destructive spirits might very well have been well respected by their tribe and seen as capable of harming the tribe's enemies.

Lastly, I notice that Abrahamics, not Christians specifically, get Lucifer's Own. Does that name really make any sense for Muslims or Jews. I'm under the impression that the name Lucifer is tightly connected with Christian tradition alone. I don't even know if Muslim cultures have traditionally believed that there were any sort of devil worshipers among them in the way that Christians did, but if so, they would probably have used a name like Iblis or Shaytan, rather than Lucifer.
And as for Jews, I'm sure having secret devil worshiping groups in Jewish ruled realms can work out just as fine as with any other religion, but one uncomfortable thought, that I feel a need to bring up, is that the many Jews who lived in Christian ruled societies were frequently accused of devil worship and human sacrifice by the Christian majority. Known as 'Blood Libel' this is one of the great historical travesties in persecution of the Jewish people, and is something that we might want to have on our mind when adding actual devil worshiping Jews (among other religions of course) to our game set in the Middle Ages.
 
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