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CK2 Dev Diary #36: The Witching Hour

Hi everyone!

I hope you all had a good time during the Holidays. I know I did, but now it’s time to don the crown, strap on the sword and get back to work on Crusader Kings II (and my other game, of course...) Now, what better way to start off the new year than with a bit of harmless witchery? In the terribly long eras before the great thinkers of the Age of Reason would have us replace magic with science, the “occult” was of course seen as a normal part of life, and society lived in fear of curses and evil spells. But… just because you’re superstitious does not mean the witches aren’t out to get you! Just like today, the desperate and the unscrupulous would seek power by any means necessary, including the worship of demons and evil spirits...

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This brings us to my favorite Society in the upcoming expansion Monks and Mystics; the Demon Worshippers. These brothers and sisters of the left-hand path come in several varieties: Abrahamics get “Lucifer’s Own”, Tengri pagans get the “Plaguebringers”, the Indian faiths are afflicted with a particularly nasty type of Kali worship, Baltic, Slavic and Finnic pagans get “The Cold Ones” (evil shamans) and Germanic Pagans have those who curry the favor of Hel and of powerful jotuns. Regardless of religious context, they are all united in their self-serving, utterly ruthless quest for power in the world of the living, and care little for their fate in the afterlife. As they advance through the ranks, Demon Worshippers get powers like “Dark Divorce”, “Summon Familiar” and “Tainted Touch” (a health curse.) Through their network of agents, they can also attempt to abduct relatively low ranking characters. Now, a lot of the content for the Demon Worshippers is hard to explain in terms of placebo effects and natural phenomena, so if you don’t care for the supernatural I suggest simply not joining those Societies (because rooting out their covens and persecuting them through your Court Chaplain is reasonably historical and adds flavor to the game.) However, if you really don’t want them around, you can turn them off through a Game Rule.

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Next up are the infamous Assassins, a Shiite Muslim Society that - unsurprisingly - specializes in murder. The elusive Assassins consider themselves the true followers of Allah, and will do anything to further the advances of Shia Islam and protect their fellow believers. Consisting of loyal warriors as well as competent spies, wielding manipulation and social skills as expertly as a dagger, they specialize in asymmetrical warfare, striking hard at the heart of their enemies. Their special powers include intimidation and murder. For example, they can get a Favor with someone (if you have the Conclave expansion) by leaving a dagger on their pillow. At higher ranks, they can also mark someone for death, so that lower ranked members will get that murder as a mission. Since this Society is also a political entity and a Holy Order of sorts, the Grandmaster gets the power to raise special troops.

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There is more to say about these Societies; their other powers, missions and semi-random events, but I don’t want to spoil it all. Oh, and if you have the Way of Life expansion, you can use “Spy On” to find out if a character is a member of a secret Society like the above...

There won’t be a CK2 stream today, but stay tuned for something next week (and a new dev diary, of course)!
 
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The challenge comes in not being able to easily pass laws(and actually be able to influence whether or not they pass) while also having to choose between skilled Councillors and vassals. And if they make you initiate voting don't they also use the favor to make you vote for it?
Near as I can tell, the liege always votes against a law change if they aren't the initiator (which includes a favor that forces them to initiate the vote). I could be mistaken, though.
 
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If the game was too easy. Then don't start as the HRE or ERE etc. Using extremely easy starts like those of course needs Conclave to **** up your game and actually create something for the player to do.

Overall, it is a horrible DLC.
Speak for yourself, I actually find several of the features in the actual expansion — not the 2.5 patch — quite useful now that I've had a chance to play with them for an extended period. There's just a few things they didn't completely think through.
 
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If the game was too easy. Then don't start as the HRE or ERE etc. Using extremely easy starts like those of course needs Conclave to **** up your game and actually create something for the player to do.

Overall, it is a horrible DLC.
I have literally never played as either of those. The only empire I've started as was the Latin Empire. I like starting as either dukes, small kings, or vassals.
 
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If the game was too easy. Then don't start as the HRE or ERE etc. Using extremely easy starts like those of course needs Conclave to **** up your game and actually create something for the player to do.

Overall, it is a horrible DLC.

I tend to start as counts generally with one or two provinces it was still too easy before. At every level the ambitions of your lessers entirely lacked the teeth that the real ambitions of men had. It was not realistic it did not portray the rambling of ambitious men well enough.

At first it wasn't doable but it has been tweaked significantly since launch after that it just takes some adapting, some relearning of the diplomatic tools and how often you need to use them.

But hey at the end of the day you can either adapt and handle it or you can't.
 
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Speak for yourself, I actually find several of the features in the actual expansion — not the 2.5 patch — quite useful now that I've had a chance to play with them for an extended period. There's just a few things they didn't completely think through.

I have been playing strategy games since 1999, I can tell the difference between the patch and the DLC. I tried Conclave and it sucks, for instance the new education system is awful. Also, when I play, I always turn on coalitions but I never use shattered retreat. I am usually the one who will need a coalition to survive, not the other way around. I literally try to pick the hardest starts in the game.
 
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Guys cmon now, It's like scientific fact that conclave was a disaster. Believe me, I always play games by making them more challenging. The Idea was good but the execution was a disaster and I believe It is the worst DLC/Patch ever produced by Paradox!
I praise and commend when I see good executed DLC or when devs put their hard work (e.g. Reapers Due) but Conclave was a disaster and still not fixed 100%
 
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Guys cmon now, It's like scientific fact that conclave was a disaster. Believe me, I always play games by making them more challenging. The Idea was good but the execution was a disaster and I believe It is the worst DLC/Patch ever produced by Paradox!
I praise and commend when I see good executed DLC or when devs put their hard work (e.g. Reapers Due) but Conclave was a disaster and still not fixed 100%
So who applied the scientific method on it? Honestly for that kind of data you would need a massive amount of test subjects because personal enjoyment could vary so massively :p

But honestly the conclave doc was great. It makes playing as a vassal more interesting, and makes playing as a ruler more challenging. I don't see how it wasn't implemented well. The only thing I don't like is that the converter looks at how strong your council is to see if your realm should be divided instead of another law. You know, like maybe centralization?
 
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Maybe it's down to taste?
The Conclave is personally my favorite expansion so far. The only thing I dislike about it is the shattered retreat, but I can now disable it. Or I can find a mod that alters it to a logical level, after which it becomes a solid feature.
EDIT:
Oh wait, shattered retreat is part of a patch, right? Then there's nothing I dislike about The Conclave...
 
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for instance the new education system is awfu

Why because you can't educate super characters anymore? The reality was the education system was way too easily gamed & exploited before Conclave.

Could and should they have introduced that element of randomness (that it needed) in a way that didn't chain the player's choice. Yes yes they should have but it did need that element of randomness and it was OP before.

Guys cmon now, It's like scientific fact that conclave was a disaster. Believe me, I always play games by making them more challenging. The Idea was good but the execution was a disaster and I believe It is the worst DLC/Patch ever produced by Paradox!
I praise and commend when I see good executed DLC or when devs put their hard work (e.g. Reapers Due) but Conclave was a disaster and still not fixed 100%

Oh look a guy on the internet touting his opinion as scientific fact, I've never seen one of those

Maybe if you underline more words next time it will cover the lack of actual facts, evidence or data better. Ya know the things that prove things to actually be facts.
 
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Maybe it's down to taste?
The Conclave is personally my favorite expansion so far. The only thing I dislike about it is the shattered retreat, but I can now disable it. Or I can find a mod that alters it to a logical level, after which it becomes a solid feature.
EDIT:
Oh wait, shattered retreat is part of a patch, right? Then there's nothing I dislike about The Conclave...

I'm a fan of Conclave, personally, but don't you dislike the overabundance of Elective Monarchy everywhere in the world?

It's honestly my only real problem with the expansion, I like to see Dynasties grow and become more powerful, but that sadly isn't really represented properly since Conclave came out.
 
I like to see Dynasties grow and become more powerful.
I don't really care about that.
I only really care about my own dynasty.
 
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what good is having your own dynasty grow if it has no rivals
Again, I only care about my own dynasty. My rivals are other realms, not dynasties.
It's simply how I play this game.
 
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Near as I can tell, the liege always votes against a law change if they aren't the initiator (which includes a favor that forces them to initiate the vote). I could be mistaken, though.

Pretty sure this is true, which can be frustrating. Once my council forced a vote on something I actually wanted, and my "vote" against it was the deciding vote. Not only did it fail, I had to wait another 5 years to call for another vote on it.
 
Guys cmon now, It's like scientific fact that conclave was a disaster. Believe me, I always play games by making them more challenging. The Idea was good but the execution was a disaster and I believe It is the worst DLC/Patch ever produced by Paradox!
I praise and commend when I see good executed DLC or when devs put their hard work (e.g. Reapers Due) but Conclave was a disaster and still not fixed 100%
Allow me to educate you on how science actually works: Provide data for your assertion or withdraw the argument.
 
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Again, I only care about my own dynasty. My rivals are other realms, not dynasties.
It's simply how I play this game.
i feel like you've somewhat missed the point of there being other characters. or traits. or relationships between characters
 
i feel like you've somewhat missed the point of there being other characters. or traits. or relationships between characters
To be fair, he alone is responsible of how he wants to play the game, I don't think there's an universal "point" to their being other characters.

I do agree with you though, but I don't think it's alright to push own's vision of the game on someone else.
 
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i feel like you've somewhat missed the point of there being other characters. or traits. or relationships between characters
Oh, but that's a different matter altogether. Those traits and interactions between characters are what makes this game interesting for me.
My characters have enemies and rivals, sure thing.
But I never felt a meaningful rivalry between me and other dynasties. Rack up a higher score than others? I really don't care about that. Abbasids have absolute power in the Arabian Empire? Yeah, I don't think I want to bother fighting the entire Middle East just to stop them from having a bigger dynasty than me...
Maybe within my own realm? I usually start as a Count in a powerful realm, and work my way towards becoming the the top liege. And once I become that top liege, every other dynasty in the realm starts fading into insignificance.
But all that rivalry I have is usually for individual characters.
 
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Oh, but that's a different matter altogether. Those traits and interactions between characters are what makes this game interesting for me.
My characters have enemies and rivals, sure thing.
But I never felt a meaningful rivalry between me and other dynasties. Rack up a higher score than others? I really don't care about that. Abbasids have absolute power in the Arabian Empire? Yeah, I don't think I want to bother fighting the entire Middle East just to stop them from having a bigger dynasty than me...
Maybe within my own realm? I usually start as a Count in a powerful realm, and work my way towards becoming the the top liege. And once I become that top liege, every other dynasty in the realm starts fading into insignificance.
But all that rivalry I have is usually for individual characters.
I find it more immersive and useful to watch my character murdered, and have a blood feud for a century or so that ends with my victorious persian empire assassinating the last male Abbasid. Why would I just be angry at the one who actually did it, in real life and in game, that family would have to be purged as vengeance.

Dynastic Rivalries are useful for giving a goal in the game.

edit: Actually, I think i castrated him, seemed more revengy than killing him.
 
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