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Silfae

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Nov 4, 2013
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  • Crusader Kings II
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Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

20180730093248_1.jpg


Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

20180730093553_1.jpg


The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
20180730093708_1.jpg


Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

20180730094033_1.jpg


While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

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A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

Hellenics5.jpg


Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

20180730094306_1.jpg


First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

20180730094406_1.jpg


Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
I don't know, I feel like this is another one of those deluding hints. You are really going to add naval combat, aren't you? :)
I know, I'm like 70% sure I'm talking about playable Hellenism myself...
 
Will the Hellenic unreformed religion have a Religious Head or only the Reformed one?
Only the reformed one (if you do not pick Autonomous Leadership, of course).

What characteristics has the Hellenic religion? Like excommunication, divorce, invasion, etc.
The abilities of a Reformed Hellenic Religious Head depend on the Leadership picked, but there are no special "Papal" actions, if that is what you are asking. It works the same as any other Pagan Religious Head.

Will the Pontifex Maximus have a College of Cardinals like College of Pontiffs?
I'm afraid not.

Are temple dedication hardcoded for Hellenism only or it can also be modded for other pagan religions,

They are set only for Hellenics, but they are not hardcoded. I had thought about making it into a Doctrine, like Haruspicy and Astrology, but unfortunately that would have taken a lot more time, since the entire event structure would have needed to be adapted to all the various deities of the other pagan religions (as well as the fact that some Doctrines change the gods).

There could be some nasty events for christendom to go with it?
There's some flavor about the Christian reaction, yes. Nothing major though.
 
A couple of things:

1) Will Romans get access to Byzantine events like chariot races and all that too, or will you still have to be Greek for that? Could it be possible for non-Greek vassals of Byzantium to get these events?

2) So can I just ask, on an abstract level, what the Roman Renaissance actually represents? Is it like Eu4, where (at least the community seems to suggest) you just rebrand your current culture and start using fancy names, or is it, on a deeper level, trying to restore Roman culture through things like reintroducing chariot races to Italians etc. and essentially Byzantifying the West. I can actually imagine a revival in Latin being within the scope of realism, since for half of the game's timeframe everyone spoke dialects of Latin instead of individual Romance languages anyway. Latin as a lingua franca could hold the same weight that Arabic did in displacing languages, and with greater probability since it's actually ancestral with massive general similarity and/or literally just the standardized register of the language they're speaking anyway. After all, with a proper empire, the language can be standardized

1) Most of the events you are talking about used to be tied to owning one of the Roman Empires and being Christian (only a few were locked by culture), they have now been updated to work for Hellenics as well.

2) I suppose it could be roleplayed in different ways, depending on what culture the reformer belongs to before making the switch, but, I would say in general that yes, it is an attempt at restoring the old customs. It could be intended a bit as a show of power: the Empire has been restored and is flourishing again, therefore we can afford the sort of lifestyle that our ancestors had.

Can you tell us what kind of culture-specific troops the Roman culture will get?
They get a pikemen/heavy infantry mix to try and represent the Legion.
Their cultural building is the Camp of Mars, also giving Pikemen.
This is spectacular - thank you, devs*. I know I was critical of some of the excessive pressure for this feature, but I actually really like how it's been done. I have some questions:

1) Which map view is the first screenshot?

2) Does the decision to destroy the churches destroy the Papacy title, or does it just deprive the Pope of his holdings in Rome? And does it kill (and make potential martyrs of) the Pope and any cardinals who are present in Rome?

3) Does Hellenism get a holy order?

4) Seconding the earlier question: does a hierocratic reformed Hellenism get a College of Pontiffs?

Thanks,

nd

*DEVS IN ADIVTORIVM, &c.

1) Religious map, reformed with Autocephalous leadership.

2) Unfortunately not. I thought about the idea of transforming the Papal title into the Pontifex Maximus if you Reform while owning Rome (since they are basically the same thing), but the potential for other stuff breaking was too high for the potential value.

3) Yes.

4) As said above, no.
 
Also, will the Hellenic Societies will have special clothes for them ?For Stoics and Olympian Champions mainly, as the Bacchus followers would use the typical Satanist Hoods I suppose.
All three societies get special clothes.
 
I really appreciate using the term "Galileans" here, an instant +1 star for the DLC.
Thank you, yes, I thought that, if the reformer is a Roman Emperor, he would probably take some inspiration from Julian.
 
This shit just doesn't make any sense! Hopefully there will be an option to turn hellenism off
Yes, there is a game rule to turn it off.
Still, given the restrictive requirements, even with the rule on, it is very unlikely to happen unless the player is pursuing it.
 
Ok I have a bunch of questions to ask now.

If you're going to keep announcing things that are so awesome I A) Nearly cry every week in sheer awe B) Can barely continue to play the game as is because GODDAMN... could you please hurry up and give us a release date? (I am 100% aware this will not get us a release date any faster but dammit a man has to try)

1) Are there any Hellenics left as Counts or anything in the earlier Bookmarks? Reading the first way I was convinced there was no chance but as you can do so through slightly less radical means (though man am I ever happy to see such a massive undertaking exist) I have to wonder.

2) What's the Roman Retinue?

3) Can you get some game over security by establishing your Bloodline in an independent Kingdom or will they go full purge?

4) When are we going to talk about that Purple government ribbon we saw a few DDs ago?

Druids and Kemetics with similar mechanics?

Let's see what I can manage to answer...

1) No Hellenic rulers at any start date, you have to become one, you cannot start as one.

2) As said above, mix of pikemen and heavy infantry.

3) Do you refer to the Roman Civil War? It might be possible, I suppose? But if your heir is also a pagan you will lose the Roman Empire for sure upon defeat.

4) Patience.

Will Roman-Cultured Emperors be able to reinstate (Wisely or not) the Praetorian guard?

I considered doing it, but there was no time for it, unfortunately. You can create a Hellenic Holy Order and the Hellenic Warrior Lodge though.
 
Any special blood for the founder of dead religion?
No, but we added a Bloodline for restoring the Roman Empire in general (provided that you are not already member of a famous Byzantine Bloodline).
 
I dont want to nag but can we see the Olympian Champions society armour and maybe the cultural Roman armour for when your leading troops? I just love armour...

Here we go:

Hellenics6.jpg


Would it be possible to get a list of the 12 Olympians as per CK2? Who they are tends to vary a bit.

The three brothers: Zeus, Poseidon, Hades.
Gods of War: Ares, Athena, Ephaestus.
Gods of Prosperity: Demetra, Aphrodites, Hestia, Hermes.
Heavenly Twins: Apollo and Artemis.

Considering how the classical Emperors would adopt and appoint their heirs, could Hellenism or the Roman culture get a Buddist-style appointment succession form? Being able to adopt other characters would also be nice, but probably much harder to implement.
It can be achieved when reforming the religion, either by picking Meritocracy or the Hellenics' special Doctrine.
 
This content is great and all. But, It would have been sooo much funnier if you added this without telling anyone. And on release day or sometime after, someone stumbled onto this accidentaly and then the Paradoxian part of internet would have gone mad with excitement and surprise.

Paradox expansions should definitively have 1 piece of content each, which is secret until release.

Who's to say there is nothing like that in the expansion already though? :p
 
Any chance it could be made like the Supernatural events?
Open: Any character chan choose to become Hellenic (so the AI can take the "Delve into the classics" decision)
Restricted: Only the player can choose to become Hellenic
Off: Hellenism can never be revived
It's just an On/Off rule. Differentiating between Open and Restricted would not really change much. Becoming Hellenic and restoring the religion is so hard we have never seen the AI accomplish it, even when allowed to. You'd need to already be in a really crazy playthrough to see it happen without player intervention.

1.Can the Hellenic coat of arms using Christian coat of arms or Another newly designed?This can be used to distinguish the religion of a common barbarian.(in contrast, the Greeks are civilized)
The religion is using for the most part the Christian interface (with some tweaks). The CoA on the Character's screen is set to always be the round one for Pagans, so that is unfortunately going to remain. You are not going to see any of the wooden graphics though.

2.Can other religious treasures work for Hellenic ? We all know that the ancient Romans recognized gods of other religions.
That really depends on how you reform it (Nature/Doctrines).
 
If I understood correctly, you can make one of these Gods the main deity of a temple, right.
But can you also choose one of them as your patron God, like the other pagan religions?
Yes, they are from the Dedicate Temple action.
No, it is a separate mechanic from the Patron God decision (which Hellenics do not have).
When Dedicating a temple you will receive a character modifier for your ruler though (similar to what you would receive when selecting a Patron God), but, unlike the Patron God one, it is only temporary.

Why not call them Myrmidons or perhaps, Evocati?

Because Myrmidons are the Holy Order.

But Romans were not hellenistic, neither their religion...they took similarities between religious figures to push a fluid, non humiliating greek integration, but their pantheons were different.

Or this is an in-game reconstruction of what people thought "roman-hellenistic religion" was ?

Like for "African" I would consider "Hellenic" to be a catch-all term rather than specifically referring to one of the many Greek and Roman versions, especially considering that the religion is being revived by a former-Christian and reformed to the player's liking.
 
So you'll have to reselect the temple's deity manually from time to time?
You can only dedicate a temple once. When the character modifier received from that action runs out, you need to dedicate another temple in order to regain it (or gain another one, if you dedicate the next temple to a different god).
The bonus on the temple itself on the other hand is permanent.
 
Is it only the temples you personally hold, the temples in your own provinces, or any temple in the whole Empire?
Any temple under your ruler that is owned by an hellenic theocracy.
 
. Gotta reiterate the earlier question that was asked, though; Hellenism in Rule Designer?
Yes.

So the Pope has a high chance of becoming Secretly Hellenic, as he controls Rome, is usually italian and Scholar is one of the foci that theocracies usually choose, or Priests are less likely to adopt Hellenism as their religion?
Theocracies excluded.
 
So there's a reform doctrine which lets you use other people's artifacts? Don't suppose you could tell us which?
Ah, no, sorry, I'm afraid I read your first question incorrectly (there have been quite a few being asked around). No, that would not be possible, I'm afraid. I thought you were referring to syncretism in general.