CK2 Beginner - DLC Advice

[Starisc]

Hi there,

I finally want to tackle CK2 (after HOI3+4, EU4, Stellaris) and need some advice about DLCs. I know this game is more roleplay focused, however, I want to mention I'm always more conqueror than diplomat (WC is always an option ^^)

So I got all major DLCs except latest three?!? (Humble bundle and Steam sales...my game backlog is immense )
1. Charlemagne
2. Horse Lords
3. Conclave

So i read beginner wiki and other guides (I'll start in Ireland, take it slow etc...).
But what about these DLCs? Should I get them? I've gotten the impression Conclave adds a lot of complexity (beginner difficulty) with these pesky councils.

What are your opinions about the DLCs? Needed/mandatory mods? I have no ambition to start as ironman, so anything goes .

Any advice is very much appreciated.

 

[Bernard95]

To be honest with you, if you have everything but those three you're not missing out on much.

Charlemagne:
-Adds the woefully unbalanced 769 start date and Charlemagne's story events.
-Adds viceroyalties, a new type of a vassal where the title goes back to you upon succession. Gives you more power over your vassals once you get all the prerequisite laws in place to unlock them. Viceroys are also used by default to simulate Byzantium, though it does make things more difficult rather than being a regular feudal lord.
-Adds the ability to create custom kingdoms and empires (empires do require 8k prestige which is something to keep in mind), which is a novelty at best unless you're desperate for a higher title or want to roleplay.

Horse Lords:
-Adds a new government type to make the Hordes unique that would otherwise be tribal.
-Hordes were formerly very overpowered and built for rapid conquest, but were nerfed recently so that many of their CBs are based upon population.
-Hordes are unique in that they are built around having manpower/population and do not use levies but "hordes" which are basically retinue armies.
-Adds a few events and decisions for Hordes.
-Adds the Silk Road, which basically translates into a way to make some extra gold if you control or raid certain provinces along it.

Conclave:
-Intended as a difficulty hike for experienced players. In truth though, some of the mechanics can actually make things much easier or restrictive to the point of frustration (see next point).
-A fully empowered council will likely stop you dead in your tracks if you favor rapid conquest, especially if you can't even hand out titles without using favors.
-Adds a new education system that usually prevents god-like heirs, but is more micro-intensive since you need to choose two foci per child as they age and by default you're the guardian of every kid in your court.

 

[RagingJaws]

To add my two cents. Forget what is and isn't a paid feature though.

Charlemagne:
-If you're an achievement hunter, there are some Charlemange required achievements to be had. Don't fear Charlie, fear his greedy kids.
-Viceroyalties are "fun" and certainly sensible if you desire to play something closer to how Medieval Byzantium would have felt.
-Creating custom kingdoms and empires is great for a RPer as well as circumventing the Norse cultural shift that bothers some players (will be fixed with next <Secret DLC> free patch)
-Zuni religion.

Horse Lords:
-Totally new gameplay style with Nomads. They still need a fair bit of work (some fixes in <Secret DLC> free patch.
-Dynamic mercenaries.
-Horse Lords specific achievements.

Conclave:
-Revamped education system. Makes it harder to game your heir into a diplomatic deity. New events for childhood education as well. Many of them are quite good, immersive for a RPer.
-Better laws. Status of Women, Vassal Obligations, and Council Laws allow you to tailor your Kingdom/Empire internal affairs.
-Council allows for sometimes entertaining politicking. Another feature that is more desirable for a RPer
-Dynamic mercenaries for non-horde Kingdoms/Empires
-Conclave achievements.

You don't *need* those last three to play fulfilling games in Western/Eastern Europe or Asia/India/Africa. They are simply the extra bit of icing on a decadent cake. Like all DLCs, I'd advise waiting for it to go on sale before buying.

 

[RelVleDy]

If you're more into conquering, then Charlemagne is essential for the earlier start date, and Horse Lords could be considered essential if you want to play as a "Mongol-like horde" that tries to trample over everyone with as little regard for economic policies as possible.

For you, Conclave is the only one I wouldn't get it. While as a veteran, I love it for the challenge, but for you, all it would do is needlessly complicate your learning experience, and you wouldn't be able to take full advantage of its features if you were playing as a horde anyways. It's more of an experience tailored towards playing as a vassal who's working his way up the chain of command. The education system I only barely like over the original, but even then, I had to print out a fricking chart and tape it next to my monitor to forecast to me what child educational traits result in what.

 

[Thrake]

Hi,

You can pass on Charly and Horse lords IMO. Charly is mostly an earlier bookmark and boring and buggy viceroyalties.

I like that nomads are actual nomads and not tribals with horse lords, but I'm not too found of nomadic gameplay so I wouldn't say it's a must.

I had good fun with conclave, but maybe it's not the most beginner-friendly DLC.

 

[Naufragus]

I am of a different mindset. I would get Charlemagne. I always start at the earliest date. I didnt realize the custom kingdoms came with that but its a really nice feature if you have all the mechanics down and gets you out of the De Jure rut

Horse Lords is a nice change of pace from playing feudal and the silk road could add to Merchant Repub play. Of the 3 this would be the one I would say you dont need.

Conclave you dont need now - but I like the features. Once you are experienced it adds a bit of difficulty

You could live without any of them TBH but they all add some features and if you like the game worth getting.

I would however get all the portrait and unit packs. Those are usually like 1.99 and a lot of flavor.

 

[orochi2k]

To other games, we may hate DLCs. To CK2, we just throw money to Paradox and almost cannot wait for next one.

 

[Starisc]

thank you for all the advice. @Naufragus - I'm still very much learning the mechanics. Succeeded yesterday in founding the Irish kingdom. Still fighting the controls and reading up on concepts. What is the the de jure rut? I've already pressed de jure claims for my Irish kingdom.

Another question: I managed a matrilineal marriage to the heir of the King of Scotland. My grandchildren would inherit Scotland - would they be under my control or do I need to nominate my grandchild as my successor?

 

[orochi2k]

thank you for all the advice. @Naufragus - I'm still very much learning the mechanics. Succeeded yesterday in founding the Irish kingdom. Still fighting the controls and reading up on concepts. What is the the de jure rut? I've already pressed de jure claims for my Irish kingdom.

Another question: I managed a matrilineal marriage to the heir of the King of Scotland. My grandchildren would inherit Scotland - would they be under my control or do I need to nominate my grandchild as my successor?

You do need to ensure him to success your realm to play him after you pass away. (Or maybe you can success Scotland from him via more evil plots...)

 

[Es57]

Another question: I managed a matrilineal marriage to the heir of the King of Scotland. My grandchildren would inherit Scotland - would they be under my control or do I need to nominate my grandchild as my successor?

From what I understand, since you talk about matrilineal marriage, you probably married your daughter to the heir of Scotland.

So two options : nominate one of her sons as your heir via elective succession (or, better, tanistry since you're Irish).
Or, more difficult, make her your own heir via primogeniture succession by making sure she has no brothers (if she is your only child, divorce/kill your wife to make sure you don't have additional children ; if she already has brothers, appoint them as bishops or send them to the monestery to remove them from the succession line).

Also, keep checking regularly that your scottish son-in-law remains heir to Scotland, as it might change with time. If need be, make sure his royal father has an unfortunate and unexpected accident.

 

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

Hm Horse Lords is useful, but if you are not playing nomads, you might want to skip it. For me, Charlemagne is essential, and I really love things that Conclave adds, even though it changes some things to be a bit more unbalanced. Personally I love having all DLC's so if you can wait for some sales on steam, and get all of them, that would be what I would have done.
My advice would be, get a few games under your belt, you don't need to play full time-frame, just a hundred or so years, to get a grip, then get the DLCs you prefer, although I would go for all 3, maybe conclave last, cause it ads some complexity and makes things harder.. and then think about CK2+ / HIP mods, that further complicate things, but are really, really, great.. I don't play without them at all anymore.

 

[Darkgamma]

Conclave is a must-get; it just makes the game harder and nerfs so many exploits that people used for so long. I like CM because of the early start date it gives, and the Viceroyalties are quite fun; most of the content was bundled with the patch though. Horse Lords I'd recommend only if you, well, like being a horse lord. Nothing else to it.

 

[Starisc]

From what I understand, since you talk about matrilineal marriage, you probably married your daughter to the heir of Scotland.

So two options : nominate one of her sons as your heir via elective succession (or, better, tanistry since you're Irish).
Or, more difficult, make her your own heir via primogeniture succession by making sure she has no brothers (if she is your only child, divorce/kill your wife to make sure you don't have additional children ; if she already has brothers, appoint them as bishops or send them to the monestery to remove them from the succession line).

Also, keep checking regularly that your scottish son-in-law remains heir to Scotland, as it might change with time. If need be, make sure his royal father has an unfortunate and unexpected accident.

That makes sense, gonna try tanistry. I'm already plotting to kill the heir's brother to clear the path. btw, if a plot has been discovered, does that decrease chances for a success?

@RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen - I'm gonna have a second look at Charlemagne. Good advice with several shorter sessions. I'll try to get Scotland with my grandson (~20-30 years) and then start over. Any other good starter nations except Irish/ tutorial island?

 

[Es57]

Any other good starter nations except Irish/ tutorial island?

A good starting idea would be a german count under the Holy Roman Emperor.
Your liege shields you from any foreign agression, and you can learn the mechanics of being a vassal and working your way up the feudal ladder by plotting/conquering.

 

[Darkgamma]

That makes sense, gonna try tanistry. I'm already plotting to kill the heir's brother to clear the path. btw, if a plot has been discovered, does that decrease chances for a success?

@RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen - I'm gonna have a second look at Charlemagne. Good advice with several shorter sessions. I'll try to get Scotland with my grandson (~20-30 years) and then start over. Any other good starter nations except Irish/ tutorial island?

Anything's a starter if you're brave enough! Harold Godwinson and Harald Hardråde in 1066 are good for grinding war strategy.

 

[Naufragus]

thank you for all the advice. @Naufragus - I'm still very much learning the mechanics. Succeeded yesterday in founding the Irish kingdom. Still fighting the controls and reading up on concepts. What is the the de jure rut? I've already pressed de jure claims for my Irish kingdom.

Another question: I managed a matrilineal marriage to the heir of the King of Scotland. My grandchildren would inherit Scotland - would they be under my control or do I need to nominate my grandchild as my successor?

Well, vanilla is very much based on Dejure Duchies and Dejure Kingdoms. So you have very static way to progress and predictable people declaring war on you. There are times where you might be a Duke and way more powerful than your liege but with no claims you are always under your liege. Or have holdings in couple of dejure regions. I have in the past created my own Kingdom of Valencia, Barcelona and Provence rather than have to deal with getting the crown or Aragon or Burgundy or Aquitane. Also have had a vassal Duke break away and start his own IIRC.

That mostly effects larger areas like Spain or France. Lol. In Ireland if you have 3 duchies you nearly own the entire country. But you might say have 2 duchies there and one in England. So you could create a new Celtic kingdom.

For the inheritance, no its they would not be under you. Its really very simple. Emperor - King - Duke - Count - Baron. Unless you are emperor you can never have a king as a vassal. The higher title always trumps the lower. So if you are a count and your grandson becomes Duke of X, you will always be below him and any of your holdings go under his duchy. Now if you kill them - and if you play CK2 long enough you are going to murder your off spring sooner or later - you could inherit the titles.

Its the same with marriage. People 99% of the time will always marry up. As a Duke a countess will generally agree to a normal marriage. A count will generally always marry his daughters to a Duke. But a Duchess will likely never do regular with a count.

The point of some of the DLC is to add extra difficulty because once you get the mechanics down the game is super easy and predictable. Turning up the difficulty at least IMO just adds more annoying negative events. It s just more tedious rather than challenging.