CK III - [1.0.2] Lost country capital holding on succession (Tanistry issue) (Saves included)

[Jorlem]

Short summary of your issue [1.0.2] Lost country capital holding on succession

Game Version 1.0.2

What OS are you playing on?
Windows

What platform are you using?
Steam

Do you have mods enabled? No

Have you tried verifying your game files (Steam only)?
Yes

How much "pain" is this causing you?
7

Please explain the issue you experienced in the most condensed way possible
Following succession, I discovered I had lost my kingdom's capital holding, my other holding in that county, and all but one of the holdings in the capital duchy. I still had the duchy titles, but not the holdings. This caused me to ragequit.

Please explain how to reproduce the issue
See attached saves. I have before and after saves and screenshots.

Is there anything else you think could help us identify/replicate the issue?
I suspect it has something to do with the kingdom and duchy titles being on Tanistry succession, while the county level titles could not be changed from Confederate Partition succession.

Upload Attachment
File(s) attached

 

[Jorlem]

Here's a followup, sorry for the double posting.

I went back to the earlier save, and I've tried just about everything I can think of to get it so my heir inherits my capital, but no luck. I switched from Confederate Partition to Partition, upped Crown Authority to High (I was only a couple of years away from unlocking that anyway), and even gave away my holding and title for Connacht. The last did change which two holdings my actual heir is going to get, but still does not give him the realm capital.

Also, 1.0.3 just dropped, and loading the game in that did not fix this issue either. (Edit: The attached save is from 1.0.3.)

 

[Atalvyr]

I see you have 2000 prestige. Try changing the succession law of the duchy your capital is in to tanistry as well. That allowed me to nominate the same heir for both duchy and kingdom, which made the chosen heir inherit the capital and every county in it, to the point of my sons not getting a single county unless I hold land outside the tanistry duchy.

Also, be aware that while you titles now change hands via elective, the house head "title" will still go to your eldest son, meaning your chosen heir will be king but not dynasty head.

 

[Jorlem]

I see you have 2000 prestige. Try changing the succession law of the duchy your capital is in to tanistry as well. That allowed me to nominate the same heir for both duchy and kingdom, which made the chosen heir inherit the capital and every county in it, to the point of my sons not getting a single county unless I hold land outside the tanistry duchy.

Also, be aware that while you titles now change hands via elective, the house head "title" will still go to your eldest son, meaning your chosen heir will be king but not dynasty head.

My capital duchy had been set for Tanistry, all of the titles that could be set for it are. You can see the details for Munster in the bottom left of this screenshot, and for Leinster, my other duchy, in the tooltip on the right.

 

[Atalvyr]

Hmm. Strange.

I have my capital in the Isles with the duchy set to tanistry, so perhaps it is because my duchy is not de jure part of Ireland that it works?

Someone elsewhere mentioned that it worked for him to change his capital to the de jure capital of the kingdom title, so that might also be something you could try. IIRC the de jure capital of Ireland is in Dublin.

 

[Jorlem]

Hmm. Strange.

I have my capital in the Isles with the duchy set to tanistry, so perhaps it is because my duchy is not de jure part of Ireland that it works?

Someone elsewhere mentioned that it worked for him to change his capital to the de jure capital of the kingdom title, so that might also be something you could try. IIRC the de jure capital of Ireland is in Dublin.

Perhaps, but I don't own Dublin. It is owned by a vassal of one of my vassals.

Edit:
And even if that did work, the succession mechanics should still work as the tooltips say they will, regardless of what I own or have as my capital. This game was was extending off the tutorial, even if nothing else, playthroughs here should have been tested to make sure everything works as intended.

 

[Matt516]

In general, the "Title" succession laws (various elective, including Tanistry) seem to be producing very unintuitive (if maybe not incorrect) results for people. Probably worth a double check by the devs, and then an update of the wiki to more clearly demonstrate how they're supposed to work. As-is, it seems that since Tanistry frequently leads to the player losing the primary title (which is NOT how it worked in CK2), it's more or less a trap option at the moment.

 

[Jorlem]

In general, the "Title" succession laws (various elective, including Tanistry) seem to be producing very unintuitive (if maybe not incorrect) results for people. Probably worth a double check by the devs, and then an update of the wiki to more clearly demonstrate how they're supposed to work. As-is, it seems that since Tanistry frequently leads to the player losing the primary title (which is NOT how it worked in CK2), it's more or less a trap option at the moment.

Thing is, I'm not losing my primary title. My chosen heir is getting all of my upper level titles (Kingdom and Duke tier). What I'm losing is the county level titles, which cannot be changed to Tanistry from one of the Partition laws, and don't properly follow the higher level titles to the heir, which results in my losing my capital holding. As I've said before, I think the issue is coming from the intersection between Tanistry and Partition, or Partition not properly knowing how to work when the upper tier titles are not on Partition as well.

 

[Swans-]

I had the same issue playing as King of Ireland with Tanistry succession on the Kingdom title, and Confederate Partition as the realm succession.

 

[GeorgieBest]

I think they should make it so that counties always follow the succession law of their dejure duchy if it exists.

 

[Ranjid]

I'm currently playing around with this issue. The newest (and best one yet) is this one. I wonder what will happen once I die. Succession is truly a mess right now.

 

[Jorlem]

I'm currently playing around with this issue. The newest (and best one yet) is this one. I wonder what will happen once I die. Succession is truly a mess right now.

Wait, is the player heir not getting any holdings? Wow. You might want to put up the save for that.

 

[GeorgieBest]

lol I wouldn't bother using title specific succession laws at the moment. They are clearly very broken.

@Ranjid I'm guessing that screenshot was taken on version 1.03?

 

[Matt516]

the house head "title" will still go to your eldest son, meaning your chosen heir will be king but not dynasty head.

This seems like a probably unrelated, but extremely annoying bug.

 

[mihirzor]

My capital duchy had been set for Tanistry, all of the titles that could be set for it are. You can see the details for Munster in the bottom left of this screenshot, and for Leinster, my other duchy, in the tooltip on the right.

No doubt there is an issue with succession laws. But this particular instance I can figure out I think (though it is still a bug). You retained both your duchies because they were supposed to go to the Tanist (having the Tanistry law active). But you didn't inherit the counties because the county titles themselves are under Confederate Partition Law (which is hilariously bad).

At least that's what happened in my game.

And I fully agree that for a Tutorial scenario this kind of shenanigan is unacceptable. It feels like I am being used as a beta tester by the devs.

 

[RandomTsar]

From what I have been able to tell on my games. The special succession are ignoring the chosen heir and giving everything to the elligble first born. So whoever you elect may get the title but the game treats the first born as your heir and gives them all of the things your chosen heir should get

 

[AdmiralHip]

Definitely had a similar issue. I lost the game when I was forced to give up the high chieftainship of Ulster, because with it went the earldom of oriel for some reason.

 

[Brulo]

This is my take as well, my first born still inherited the dynasty head, the capital and my duchy, making me the king of nothing. This derail the game so badly that I might as well just restart, I already spent the life of my second player heir fighting rebellions - murdering family members and I am still no closer to getting back my capital or the dynasty head. This feel bad, I wanted my first run to be iconic and thorough but this completely sucked the fun out of that playthrough.

 

[shad321]

As you guys i'm playing extended tutorial as well. I managed to get Tanistry Event which i've accepted.
After my first ( and every afterward )King died i received Kingdom Title + Random Dutchy or County ( possibly somehow connected to the Heir which became a King ).
I had not Tanistry on Duchy level because i didn't know it was on title level ( i thought this should work on Realm level ) .
Each of 3 Kings i had have a different titles ( except of Kingdom Title which is only 1 common thing ) upon succession.
As for Dynasty it make sense that elected King is not a head of Dynasty ( in my case my heir was from another Dynasty in 2nd case )
This should be rechecked and explained how to play around this feature.

 

[daykay]

Frustrating bug. Playing Ironman taking Munster to King of Ireland, moved capital to Dublin (had to do this manually though game indicated it should happen automatically)... Saved and saved prestige points and converted my two duchies of Meath and Leinster to tanistry with all of them electing my preferred heir.

Only to die and be stripped of all but one useless country (not Dublin) to try and administer that kindom and two duchies! My useless county was now the new capital of Ireland.

Seems like the counties went on the partition inheritance laws and since the Irish religion encourages multiple wives i had about 20 kids to split my 6 counties out to.

Complete waste of time...