Short summary of your issue [1.0.2] CK3 - Legal/Localization - Mogyër name list plagiarized from an All Rights Reserved source
Game Version 1.0.2
What OS are you playing on?
Windows
What platform are you using?
Steam
Do you have mods enabled? No
Have you tried verifying your game files (Steam only)?
Yes
How much "pain" is this causing you?
7
Please explain the issue you experienced in the most condensed way possible
The list of first names for the Mogyër culture is plagiarized wholesale from a Hungarian fantasy roleplaying fansite for the game Ars Magica. A link to the web page whose content was copied is provided here:
http://www.birbin.mystica.hu/arm-magynev.htm. The attached image is a screenshot of the relevant CK3 game file annotated by me: all text highlighted in green, light teal, or dark teal is relevant this report (detailed later). Note that I am not the owner or administrator of this website, so I am not the one you should contact if you want to discuss legality with.
This is a problem for two reasons:
1) Legally. The website's contents are All Rights Reserved, stated both on the website's main page and on the specific webpage in question. The names provided on the webpage are the webpage author's own work, not the work of the author's sources (all easily accessible, mind you). While the author was inspired by an open source of names recorded from 1000 to 1301 to make their list, their list is a non-standard modernization of a manually curated selection of names. The fact that the exact same non-standard modernizations (e.g. "Álmus" instead of "Álmos", "Gyeicsa" instead of "Géza", "Kuppány" instead of "Koppány", "Móg" instead of "Mag") appear in CK3. They also appear in the exact same order (the names aren't completely alphabetical on the website, so this is relevant), and the exact same choices of standard vs. non-standard modernizations are used as on the website, since a different source might have applied non-standard modernizations to more and/or different names. In fact, the female name lists in CK3 and on the website are almost completely identical, with no name that is on the webpage being absent from CK3 and no name in CK3 being absent from the webpage. From these, it is fairly clear that some form of outright plagiarism took place.
Attached is a screenshot of the namelist for Mogyër as it appears in the game's files, highlighted to show which parts were copied and which ones were not. Names that are not present on the site are highlighted in red. Names that are present on the website in the exact same order are highlighted in teal or green. Light teal names are also exact copies of what is on the website (in addition to being defined in the same order), while green names are minor variants of the name that is on the website (though still defined in the same order).
2) Historically. The website is a roleplaying game fansite, and the web page in question is written in the context of advice/information for Hungarians roleplaying as characters in the fictional universe of Ars Magica. As such, the names are deliberately modernized and listed in a way that would feel strange-but-familiar to an average Hungarian roleplaying game enthusiast, rather than focusing on accurate modernization based on the standard way in which Hungarian phoenetics evolved or on faithful recreation (which is what the website's primary source does). This means that a lot of well-known names that did not change much are deliberately twisted on that website to sound different (e.g. "Gyeicsa" vs. actual "Géza", or "Kuppány" vs. actual "Koppány"), while rarer names that did actually sound different aren't altered to keep them sounding more "Hungarian" (e.g. "Szabolcs" vs. actual "Zoboleh", or "Levente" vs. actual "Liüntika"). If you want a list of historical names for an old peoples, it is not a good idea to use a single list made by and for fantasy roleplaying as your source.
Please explain how to reproduce the issue
Compare the list of names found on the Ars Magica fansite in question (URL: http://www.birbin.mystica.hu/arm-magynev.htm) to the list of names for the Mogyër culture in Crusader Kings III's game files (references located in game/common/culture/cultures/00_magyar.txt, actual names located in game/localization/english/names/character_names_l_english.yml for English). Compare both the contents of each name and the order in which the names appear in both the game's files and the webpage, which, again, is not strictly alphabetical.
Is there anything else you think could help us identify/replicate the issue?
Assuming that the website's owner does not notice and/or care about this issue, remaking the name list would address both issues at the same time. If the developers are having trouble coming up with a list of Mogyër names that suit their criteria, I volunteer to do it for them with the sole request of attribution. I already did a lot of research about this in December 2019 when I was setting up something extremely similar in the Historical Immersion Project mod for Crusader Kings II, so I should be able to work fairly quickly.
Upload Attachment
File(s) attached
Game Version 1.0.2
What OS are you playing on?
Windows
What platform are you using?
Steam
Do you have mods enabled? No
Have you tried verifying your game files (Steam only)?
Yes
How much "pain" is this causing you?
7
Please explain the issue you experienced in the most condensed way possible
The list of first names for the Mogyër culture is plagiarized wholesale from a Hungarian fantasy roleplaying fansite for the game Ars Magica. A link to the web page whose content was copied is provided here:
http://www.birbin.mystica.hu/arm-magynev.htm. The attached image is a screenshot of the relevant CK3 game file annotated by me: all text highlighted in green, light teal, or dark teal is relevant this report (detailed later). Note that I am not the owner or administrator of this website, so I am not the one you should contact if you want to discuss legality with.
This is a problem for two reasons:
1) Legally. The website's contents are All Rights Reserved, stated both on the website's main page and on the specific webpage in question. The names provided on the webpage are the webpage author's own work, not the work of the author's sources (all easily accessible, mind you). While the author was inspired by an open source of names recorded from 1000 to 1301 to make their list, their list is a non-standard modernization of a manually curated selection of names. The fact that the exact same non-standard modernizations (e.g. "Álmus" instead of "Álmos", "Gyeicsa" instead of "Géza", "Kuppány" instead of "Koppány", "Móg" instead of "Mag") appear in CK3. They also appear in the exact same order (the names aren't completely alphabetical on the website, so this is relevant), and the exact same choices of standard vs. non-standard modernizations are used as on the website, since a different source might have applied non-standard modernizations to more and/or different names. In fact, the female name lists in CK3 and on the website are almost completely identical, with no name that is on the webpage being absent from CK3 and no name in CK3 being absent from the webpage. From these, it is fairly clear that some form of outright plagiarism took place.
Attached is a screenshot of the namelist for Mogyër as it appears in the game's files, highlighted to show which parts were copied and which ones were not. Names that are not present on the site are highlighted in red. Names that are present on the website in the exact same order are highlighted in teal or green. Light teal names are also exact copies of what is on the website (in addition to being defined in the same order), while green names are minor variants of the name that is on the website (though still defined in the same order).
2) Historically. The website is a roleplaying game fansite, and the web page in question is written in the context of advice/information for Hungarians roleplaying as characters in the fictional universe of Ars Magica. As such, the names are deliberately modernized and listed in a way that would feel strange-but-familiar to an average Hungarian roleplaying game enthusiast, rather than focusing on accurate modernization based on the standard way in which Hungarian phoenetics evolved or on faithful recreation (which is what the website's primary source does). This means that a lot of well-known names that did not change much are deliberately twisted on that website to sound different (e.g. "Gyeicsa" vs. actual "Géza", or "Kuppány" vs. actual "Koppány"), while rarer names that did actually sound different aren't altered to keep them sounding more "Hungarian" (e.g. "Szabolcs" vs. actual "Zoboleh", or "Levente" vs. actual "Liüntika"). If you want a list of historical names for an old peoples, it is not a good idea to use a single list made by and for fantasy roleplaying as your source.
Please explain how to reproduce the issue
Compare the list of names found on the Ars Magica fansite in question (URL: http://www.birbin.mystica.hu/arm-magynev.htm) to the list of names for the Mogyër culture in Crusader Kings III's game files (references located in game/common/culture/cultures/00_magyar.txt, actual names located in game/localization/english/names/character_names_l_english.yml for English). Compare both the contents of each name and the order in which the names appear in both the game's files and the webpage, which, again, is not strictly alphabetical.
Is there anything else you think could help us identify/replicate the issue?
Assuming that the website's owner does not notice and/or care about this issue, remaking the name list would address both issues at the same time. If the developers are having trouble coming up with a list of Mogyër names that suit their criteria, I volunteer to do it for them with the sole request of attribution. I already did a lot of research about this in December 2019 when I was setting up something extremely similar in the Historical Immersion Project mod for Crusader Kings II, so I should be able to work fairly quickly.
Upload Attachment
File(s) attached
Attachments
Last edited:
- 3
Upvote
0
