CK II - CK2(2.8.1.1) bishop "appoint successor" no longer available in 769 Dál Riata start.

[darkdagger116]

One line summary of your issue
CK2(2.8.1.1) bishop "appoint successor" no longer available in 769 Dál Riata start.

Game Version
2.8.1.1

What expansions do you have installed?
Jade Dragon,
Monks & Mystics,
The Reapers Due,
Conclave,
Way of Life,
Charlemagne,
Sons of Abraham,
The Old Gods,
The Republic,
Legacy of Rome,
Sword of Islam

Do you have mods enabled?
No

Please explain your issue is in as much detail as possible.
Playing 769 Dál Riata (the Isles) start. In the past I have always been able to "appoint successor" for the bishops from the start. (I almost always start as this duchy) However now I am unable to do so. I have started a new game with the same result. However, I created a game in the nearby Irish County of Ulaidh, and I can still use "appoint successor" for bishops in that game.

Steps to reproduce the issue.
Playing the 769 start as independent duchy of Dál Riata.

Upload Attachment

 

[JDogZapster]

So, its been like almost 2 years, they still not gonna even respond to this?

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

So, its been like almost 2 years, they still not gonna even respond to this?

The bug seems to be that they haven't moved this part for Charlemagne(769 bookmark) release
k_scotland.txt

#Scotland
848.1.1={
    holder = 6018
    law = cognatic_succession
    law = succ_tanistry
    law = investiture_law_1
}

to the start/top of the file to be active in 769.
Likely as it wasn't required before patch 2.8 and had been free investiture nevertheless.

Since patch 2.8 something changed in how the history files get read.
I assume it was related to this "History execution is now strictly sequential in order, eliminating a number of issues that could occur when changing the date"
Or whatever...

FIX
Either way, simply moving the relevant part to the top works

210.1.1={
    holder = 166513
    law = cognatic_succession
    law = succ_tanistry
    law = investiture_law_1
}
248.1.1={
    holder = 166514
}
271.1.1={
    holder = 166515
}

 

[Whizzer]

I thought Investiture wasn't supposed to be available before the year 1000, which would mean this is working as intended.

 

[JDogZapster]

The bug seems to be that they haven't moved this part for Charlemagne(769 bookmark) release
k_scotland.txt

#Scotland
848.1.1={
    holder = 6018
    law = cognatic_succession
    law = succ_tanistry
    law = investiture_law_1
}

to the start/top of the file to be active in 769.
Likely as it wasn't required before patch 2.8 and had been free investiture nevertheless.

Since patch 2.8 something changed in how the history files get read.
I assume it was related to this "History execution is now strictly sequential in order, eliminating a number of issues that could occur when changing the date"
Or whatever...

FIX
Either way, simply moving the relevant part to the top works

210.1.1={
    holder = 166513
    law = cognatic_succession
    law = succ_tanistry
    law = investiture_law_1
}
248.1.1={
    holder = 166514
}
271.1.1={
    holder = 166515
}

That did it! you my friend are a genius! I found this bug ages ago but didn't worry about it, cause I saw the bug report and just thought they'd eventually fix it. But after the announcement of CK3 I got worried. kind of irks me they don't fix this officially though, only took me 5 minutes and I had no clue as to what I was doing. but works for me i guess. Thanks a bunch!

 

[JDogZapster]

I thought Investiture wasn't supposed to be available before the year 1000, which would mean this is working as intended.

except if you're in Ireland you do have investiture, and I think everywhere else. I believe Scotland is the only place that where you can't do it.

 

[Whizzer]

except if you're in Ireland you do have investiture, and I think everywhere else. I believe Scotland is the only place that where you can't do it.

It's not possible in any kingdom or empire because Investiture is a crown law. I don't think this is a bug, as such, but it could be argued this is a poorly implemented/communicated feature.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

I thought Investiture wasn't supposed to be available before the year 1000, which would mean this is working as intended.

It's not possible in any kingdom or empire because Investiture is a crown law. I don't think this is a bug, as such, but it could be argued this is a poorly implemented/communicated feature.

?
Did you actauly read the OP and my post ?
This is about free investiture, but current Scotland in 769 having papal, despite it having free before patch 2.8.
The history file hadn't changed with free inv set for 848.
While a tribal can't select the law, there will be one or the other in place.

Kingdoms appear to have papal investiture by default, going by the history folder contents, while Asturias has free inv but defined by the history file. *
Feudal can only change from free investiture to papal past 1000, but can change from papal to free earlier.
If a tribal kingdom turns catholic it appears to get papal * , but if a duke turns catholic then he'll have free inv and remains so if he creates a kingdom title.

Anyway, this was Scotland specific and everthing has been said on that above.

* actually i got opposite results when testing in-game in 769.
As avar king i got papal and as saxon king i got free inv.
*confusing*

 

[Whizzer]

?
Did you actauly read the OP and my post ?
This is about free investiture, but current Scotland in 769 having papal, despite it having free before patch 2.8.
While a tribal can't select the law, there will be one or the other in place.
You also could be mixing things up from CK2Plus, but whatever...
Anyway..

Scotland had free inv before patch 2.8 or rather on ecould select bishopric sucessors, not since.
See my post above.
Feudals with exception of Asturias have papal investiture by default, goingby the history folder contents.
Feudal can only change from free investiture to papal past 1000, but can change from papal to free before.
If a tribal kingodm turns catholic it appears to be papal, but if a duke turns catholic then he'll have free and remain so if he creates a kingdom title.

Anyway, this was Scotland specific and everthing has been said on that above.

You're correct, yes. I learn and remember things every day. Thanks for correcting me. The issue is probably tribal kingdoms not having access to crown laws, including Investiture. Would you say Free should be the default law before 1000 and Investiture after 1000, barring historical exceptions?

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

You're correct, yes. I learn and remember things every day. Thanks for correcting me. The issue is probably tribal kingdoms not having access to crown laws, including Investiture. Would you say Free should be the default law before 1000 and Investiture after 1000, barring historical exceptions?

Actually this was specificaly about Soctland in 769.

Nevertheless, i think it would make sense for tribal kingdoms to be default free investiture, with feudals still papal.

By what i know the bishops in less developed regions were practically nominated locally one way or the other.
Nothing directly to do with the later investiture controversy and the HRE specifically.
Regarding any fiscal gains and regulations, i don't know about it, but would guess that backwaters rather kept the few pennies than
sending them to Rome, if that actually happened at all before 1000.

So you say....free Inv for both before 1000, but papal for both after 1000 ?

Hmmm...
I'd be okay with that as well. Sounds plausible.
While i dont know much about it, as far as i believe to know the roman nomination of bishops wasn't really taking place unitl later.
Sure.

PS :
* actually i got opposite results when testing tribals in-game in 769.
Turning catholic as avar king i got papal and as saxon king i got free inv.
*confusing*