CK II - 3.1 KKAD - The Duchy of Franconia is elector of the HRE instead of the Rhine

[King Anund]

One line summary of your issue
3.1 KKAD - The Duchy of Franconia is elector of the HRE instead of the Rhine

Game Version
3.1 KKAD

What expansions do you have installed?
All of the above

Do you have mods enabled?
No

Please explain your issue is in as much detail as possible.
In the game files. in Crusader Kings II/common/scripted_effects/00_scripted_effects.txt in the part where the historical electors of the Holy Roman Empire are set the Duchy of Franconia (d_franconia) is set to be an Elector. Attached is a screenshot of the file.

Franconia was never an elector, it was the County Palatinate of the Rhine, which is the game is represented by the Duchy of the Rhine (d_rhine).

This line makes that the Historical electors of the Palatinate are not set as electors.

Steps to reproduce the issue.
1. Start a game where the HRE is existing.
2. Look if the Duchy of the Rhine exists.
3. See if it is an Elector.

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[DanCav]

I won't disagree with you but most of the territories of the county palatinate elector were in what is in game Franconia, It might be a deliberate decision by the devs, since the territorial fragmentation seen then can't be reproduced properly in the current game iteration.

 

[King Anund]

I won't disagree with you but most of the territories of the county palatinate elector were in what is in game Franconia, It might be a deliberate decision by the devs, since the territorial fragmentation seen then can't be reproduced properly in the current game iteration.

Sure, that would make sense. However then the title of the Duchy of Franconia should be given to the historical electors of the Palatinate after the fall of the Salian dynasty. That way they can be electors of the HRE the dates that they actually were.

 

[Ruwaard]

The original secular Prince-Electors, which held the corresponding Archoffices were the dukes of the Franks, Saxons, Swabians (Alemannians) and Bavarians. It's true, that the Count Palatine of the Rhine at times acted as representative/replacement of the duke of Franconia. Just like the other count palatines they originally represented the royal/imperial authority in a (stem) duchy. In some cases they gradually became less powerful, or just merged with the ducal title, the house of Wittelsbach were counts palatine of Bavaria, before they also became duke of Bavaria.
Now back to Franconia, the house of Hohenstaufen was the dynastic heir of the Salian dynasty and as such they claimed the position of duke of Franconia as well.
The position of count palatine of the Rhine wasn't hereditary until Conrad of Hohenstaufen in 1156 was made count palatine of the Rhine* by his half-brother Emperor Frederick Barbarossa, at the same time Conrad was granted the Hohenstaufen possessions around Speyer and Worms (which originally were inherited from the Salian dynasty). It's only in 1168, that Frederick Barbarossa apparently gave the title of duke of Franconia to the prince-bishop of Würzburg, based on a forgery, but this did not entail the archoffice of Archsteward of the Empire.
IMHO until 1156 the duke of Franconia should remain the Prince-Elector, from 1156 onwards it should stay with the counts palatine of the Rhine.

*= The Franconian, not the Lotharingian possessions of the county palatine of the Rhine, were a fief made out of former possessions of the then Imperial Salian dynasty, before that point the count palatine of Rhine was better known as the count palatine of Lotharingia (Upper & Lower Lorraine). Though both Franconia and Lotharingia were a part of the lands of the Franks.

 

[jruderman]

Isn't Rhine already represented as an elector by c_mainz being an elector title?

 

[Ruwaard]

Isn't Rhine already represented as an elector by c_mainz being an elector title?

No, Mainz, like Cologne and Trier, is an Ecclesiastical Prince-Archbishop-Elector. The Rhine is a Secular Prince-Elector.

 

[jruderman]

It would be a bit much for a duchy title and its de jure capital county to both be elector titles.

 

[Battlex]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...106-new-succession-laws-extravaganza.1125508/
Franconia being the dev choice was shown with the dev diary that revamped HRElection