CK II - 1.05 Development Diary - 2 of 3 - April 6th 2012

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Arko

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What if the king of England also holds the French crown, will Normandy then still drift?

I think so. It should drift within the primary title.

Brillant patch !
 

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You still have to be of Arabic culture though

After the Reconquista of the peninsula, the southern region of Spain was named "Andalusia" ("Andalucía" in Spanish) by the christians because of the similar pronunciation from the arabic name given to the peninsula: "Al-Andalus". Therefore, IMHO it does not make sense to have the arabs call that land "Andalusia". ;)
 

Zarine

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Will it be possible to have the de jure area changed with event ?
Will it be possible to check that a duchy is now part of a specific kingdom ?
 

Puritan

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If we follow Balor's words strictly, the answer would appear to be no. "The first feature of this concept is the fact that duchies can now be assimilated into another de-jure kingdom."

but later he says:

We also introduced the concept of creating titular titles, if you hold the scripted capital. Titular titles are more expensive to create than titles that have land already de-jure to them. This means that you can now create the Kingdom of Venice if you so desire..

which implies to me that titular titles will gain de jure land over time, or upon creation.
 

Alerias

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I like this overall, but from a gameplay point of view, having more Kingdom-tier titles is usually better than having less. So instead of trying to assimilate Aquitaine into France, if I played France, I'd pretty much always always rather have both titles, wouldnt I?

My suggestion: perhaps give some sort of bonus to prestige similar to holding an extra title when you manage to expand one of your crowns significantly. Surely a King of France ruling a France with modern borders ought to be just as prestigious as a King of France, Anjou, Aquitaine and Burgundy or whatever.
 

Jia Xu

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So instead of trying to assimilate Aquitaine into France, if I played France, I'd pretty much always always rather have both titles, wouldnt I?

Not necessarily. Having more than one kingdom title gives you a rather nasty -20 relationship modifier with all of your dukes and makes them want to be a king as well. I experienced this brutally in the worst way when I held all of the kingdom level titles of the British isles at once. Rebellion after rebellion after rebellion.

While certainly a long term strategy to say the least, this new mechanic allows you to increase your hegemony without having to take on that penalty. I actually want to try a game as Brythain again when this patch comes out and use this mechanic to restore old Celtic Britain.
 

Zarine

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Maybe prestige bonus from multiple title shouldn't stack exept for county. As you should still have more vassals, you'll get the prestige bonus from being bigger anyway.
 

Alerias

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Not necessarily. Having more than one kingdom title gives you a rather nasty -20 relationship modifier with all of your dukes and makes them want to be a king as well. I experienced this brutally in the worst way when I held all of the kingdom level titles of the British isles at once. Rebellion after rebellion after rebellion.

Ive always found this penalty negligible compared to the bonuses I got from holding up to over a dozen King level titles before, though I suppose it is some sort of tradeoff, yes.

Maybe prestige bonus from multiple title shouldn't stack exept for county. As you should still have more vassals, you'll get the prestige bonus from being bigger anyway.

But then you are severely penalized compared to how things are right now when holding several crowns (ie, Hungary-Croatia, etc), UNLESS you have an Imperial title, in which case the Kings are your vassals.

Kings and Emperors can now also take counties inside their de-jure realms, as we changed how Ducal Claims work to now be a "De Jure Claim", so if you as King of Burgundy holds a province that is de jure France, France can always attack you for it.

BYZANTIUM LIVES! :cool:
 

grisamentum

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I'm kind of skeptical of these changes. It seems like it will take an interesting game that revolves around an interesting de jure duchies/kingdoms mechanic and make it simpler and easier to just force things through by allowing players to alter the de jure structures. Not a plus IMO.
 

Alerias

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These smaller kingdoms, coupled with the fact Emperors can now create Kingdoms, means that from the POV of an Emperor, especially one with Medium Crown Authority, it'll be easier to grant your vassals Kingdoms without fearing that they become too powerful in the process.

Now Emperors have a real option to grant Kingdom-level tier titles away instead of hoarding them. Of course doing so will still significantly hurt your revenue, but thats the tradeoff for ease of management.
 

Veneke

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but later he says:

"We also introduced the concept of creating titular titles, if you hold the scripted capital. Titular titles are more expensive to create than titles that have land already de-jure to them. This means that you can now create the Kingdom of Venice if you so desire."

which implies to me that titular titles will gain de jure land over time, or upon creation.

Hmmm.... I initially read that bit of text you put in bold as meaning that creating a normal title (one with a de jure fief) costs x, creating a titular title costs x+y. On reflection I suppose it's possible to infer that a titular title could be a Kingdom tier title as well and follow the rules for ownership over time like normal titles.

I think we can certainly agree that in the normal course of events a titular title will have no de jure land granted to it upon creation (else it wouldn't be a titular title) but I'm no longer certain that it can't do so over time if it's a Kingdom-tier title.

Actually, if it does work out that titular titles can become landed ones that'll be pretty awesome.
 

Razalhague

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After the Reconquista of the peninsula, the southern region of Spain was named "Andalusia" ("Andalucía" in Spanish) by the christians because of the similar pronunciation from the arabic name given to the peninsula: "Al-Andalus". Therefore, IMHO it does not make sense to have the arabs call that land "Andalusia". ;)
Except that other kingdom names are in English. Having one kingdom in Arabic makes even less sense.
 

Sleight of Hand

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Sounds great -- not looking forward to updating my mod for all of this though. :D
 

unmerged(54293)

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We have also added quite a lot of kingdoms to the map from the start, so that some of the major ones like France and Germany are slightly less powerful blocks at the start of the game. Frisia, Lotharingia, Bavaria, Pomerania, Aquitaine and Britanny are now de jure kingdoms from 1066, even if they are not actual titles held by someone. If they are not created and held by someone they will eventually be assimilated.


I understand the reasoning behind this measure, but the choice of additional kingdoms seems a bit... random, especially in Germany. Bavaria was certainly of great importance, but so was Swabia or Saxony, as well. Why should Bavaria be singled out from the other German dukedoms? Even more questionable: Pomerania. I see nothing that would qualify Pomerania as a kingdom. If you feel it's necessary to have a separate kingdom in this baltic region between Germany and Poland, Prussia would be the more obvious choice.
 

Chipster

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Overall, this sounds awesome.

How will the 100-year time limit work with rebellions? Does it reset once they declare rebellion, or only if they succeed? Because it would be horribly frustrating to wait 95 years holding a small duchy only to have an ambitious duke rebel a mere 5 years before he become de jure and ruining all of your hard work.
 

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I'm kind of skeptical of these changes. It seems like it will take an interesting game that revolves around an interesting de jure duchies/kingdoms mechanic and make it simpler and easier to just force things through by allowing players to alter the de jure structures. Not a plus IMO.

I agree about being skeptical about this change. I think I may be in the minority, but I liked the de jure system as it was in the game. Perhaps with a bit more flexibility, but it doesn't make sense to me that (for example) Normandy should legally become a part of England in 1166.
 
Last edited:

Alerias

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I agree about being skeptical about this change. I think I may be in the minority, but I liked the de jure system as it was in the game. Perhaps with a bit more flexibility, but it doesn't make sense to me that (for example) Normandy should legally become a part of England in 1066.

Well, it wont. It takes 100 years! Thats a long time. I think this system gives a bit more flexibility, but not that much either. Only late-game will we see changes to the De Jure map.

Im sure many peoples' games tend to get abandoned before the 100-yr mark, too.

Finally, Im sure theyll make that number of years moddable. Someone who wants a fast-paced De Jure map might want to lower it to 50, and those who like the static map can just choose 500 years, so no assimilation will ever occur.
 

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Well, it wont. It takes 100 years! Thats a long time. I think this system gives a bit more flexibility, but not that much either. Only late-game will we see changes to the De Jure map.

I meant to type 1166.