CK II - 1.05 Development Diary - 1 of 3 - March 30th 2012

[vanin]

Looks awesome, just curious though: To what degree can we expect the AI to use the "attach to friendly army" option? Will it be depending on the situation (how many enemy units are around, their strength etc) or is it something they do very often as long as there is a larger friendly army around?

 

[Comradebot]

Looks awesome, just curious though: To what degree can we expect the AI to use the "attach to friendly army" option? Will it be depending on the situation (how many enemy units are around, their strength etc) or is it something they do very often as long as there is a larger friendly army around?

I would like to know this. If I could call an ally to arms and get his smaller force to follow me around rather than either sit where they came from or wander off in the wrong direction, that would be awesome.

If not, well... I'll just be happy as a Count or Duke to let my little army follow around my liege's. Nothing more annoying than thinking you're following your liege into a battle, only to have him halt at the last moment and leave your 300 men to suicide on a stack of 3000....

 

[Ruwaard]

Great stuff and looking forward to it! Both the new crusade system and attach army option IMHO are good improvements of a great game.

The distribution of the lands and titles are interesting too, maybe it should also be taken into account, which ruler was actually present to personally lead his forces. That should also contribute to contribution and who have an effect on how spoils are divided.

Will the pope keep all these secular lands or will he make the greatest crusader amongst the princes of Europe the new king of the newly created crusader state (a papal fief like IRL the kingdom of Naples, however in the game the pope can't have royal vassals), and give lands to the orders (Hospitaliters, Templars etc.)?

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

Personally, the DLC looks neat, but I'm more intrigued by the list of bug fixes.

If anything, beyond a character creator, I would want the ability to create and link custom .gfx files to make entirely new face packs, so that way I could have a portrait set for each culture. (As far I am aware, they are hardcoded, and we can only add on the end of existing ones).

 

[Tamas]

There is one crucial question about the "biggest contributor gets the kingdom title" system in crusading:
When the Emperor brings his stack of doom, consisted of the armies of his vassals, will he personally be the biggest contributor, or the vassals will be tracked, even if the Emperor's joining is what took them to the crusade?

I would favor the latter of course, because the former would result in huge HRE blobs we already see, so not much point in having the new system then

 

[Gongsun Zan]

I know its a question that gets asked all the time, but will this be save-game compatitible?

 

[Phalanxia]

this.

if I start to see Papacy blobbed up in formerly non-Christian lands because I had a particuarly aggressive Papal AI getting directinvovled in Crusades, I'll facepalm.

And the argument that it would somehow make sense because of the Pope's secular power is made moot by the fact that the Pope had no reason, and would never, get any of his personal power in a Crusade when all he had to do was ssue a command and the majority of Europe would do everything for him. Seriously if I start to see "Papacy" splattered all across the Iberian peninsula, or North Africa, or God forbid Jerusalem falls under direct control of the Vatican, I'll facepalm.

oh no not facepalming anything but that

It would be nice if lesser contributing members could be granted lesser titles within the de jure kingdom automatically. Otherwise if a German gets the Kingdom there's probably little chance of him giving a Duchy to (for example) an unknown Spanish Count, rather than a friend or relative of his own. The First Crusade almost fell apart as various factions refused to cooperate and instead went on a massive landgrab towards the end. It'd be nice to see that simulated by handing out the lesser titles to lesser contributers, rather than letting the new King decide.
It'd also make for an interesting challenge for the player if he ends up as King - how do you unify a (possibly) culturally diverse new Kingdom against the threat of your unfriendly neighbours?

This is a more legitimate concern. I think having a zero-sum game for the crusades, with all the goodies being allocated purely on the basis of the amount of men contributed to the crusade is a mistake. I think a better way of doing it would be to allocate the Kingdoms and Duchies on the basis of the Commanders of the army that takes the Crusading target, with the spoils divvied up between the commanders with the most martial ability/prestige/piety/intrigue. Any non-independent ruler characters who gained territory in the Crusade would also have to face a choice between their new and their old lands - splitting up the inheritance of such characters (E.g. Raymond of Toulouse/Tripoli) is essential for creating both sensible-looking and effective Crusader Kingdoms.

 

[Hallsten]

Nice!

I don't know if I agree that the Pope should be able to "win" a crusade though. I think it would end up limiting the game if we'd end up with an Andalusian Pope-king.

 

[Nimic]

Does the crusade "leader" only gain all the territory, or the titles themselves? If the latter, does that mean there's a Christian equivalent to the Kingdom of Andalusia (right now I am fairly sure it's Muslim only as Al-Andalus, right)?

 

[the_hdk]

Looks very good. Crusades are the one thing that really didnt work. this seems good. alot better

only one question: In the pic it said the pope contributed teh most!?!? does that mean that the pope gets the crown of Andalusia?! seems a bit weird! Or doe sit go to Duke of Murcia?
also will he get the whole Kingdom?? will other crusaders get some pieces of the land? or claims?

also currently when you are a Duke you can't become a King if your liege is also King. I assume this has been omitted now? You dont have to fight a war of independence first?

last thing if your liege is the emperor and you get the Kingdom of Andalusia from a crusade will you start as independent or will the HRE still be your liege?

 

[Ruwaard]

(...)
There could be two ways I can imagine right now.

The first: The one with the most warscore gets the Kingdom Title plus the Main duchy plus the counties in the main duchy (Jerusalem would be: Kingdom and duchy of jerusalem and the counties of the duchy of Jerusalem) while the rest is split up between the remaining crusaders.

The second: Everything is united under the Kingdom and you get offered to keep a few titles, but have to give up your old holdings (only if you already have a liege) or just get vassalized by the Kingdom of Jerusalem.


Another idea would be to combine these things. Imagine the first idea only with the addition to get better/more titles if you give your old titles up. (...)

If a dynasty is large enough, then this should lead to a younger brother, younger son, nephew or cousin taking over in the old lands; which basically is a de facto split of a house in two branches. Losing the original to someone not from the dynasty or a legitimate heir would be a bit harsh, unless for instance at that moment the liege is heir due to a lack of heirs. Obviously you could also decide to keep the ancestral lands yourself and give the crusader lands to a relative.

 

[Corporal Cody]

What they should do is hand out baronies to those who contributed. That way the makeup of the kingdom will remain intact, and the victorious crusader king can hand out counties to his courtiers or vassals.

This way, everyone can remain within the previous feudal hierarchy but still gain territory from the crusade. Perhaps include a new defense CB if you hold a barony within the crusade kingdom and it comes under attack.

 

[Ephafn]

Two questions:

First, battle prestige was supposed to be one of the reason for allies to fight other people wars (since they got more of it). But right now, the amounts are negligible. Will it be increased in this patch?
And second, will jihads work in the exact same way as crusades?

 

[Zenith Darksea]

I just want to add my voice to those who are saying that the spoils of the crusade shouldn't all go to the one who contributes most. It would be nice if lesser contributors received baronies, counties, duchies etc. As happened in real life. Otherwise we'll end up with the Holy Roman Emperor or the Pope (it'll happen, just wait) gaining all of Jerusalem or Spain and then handing it out to their own vassals who weren't on the crusade, while people who actually contributed to the crusade get nothing but a little prestige boost.

Generally speaking though, I think you're on to a winning idea. I think that the division of spoils might need tweaking, though.

 

[Jaol]

I just want to add my voice to those who are saying that the spoils of the crusade shouldn't all go to the one who contributes most. It would be nice if lesser contributors received baronies, counties, duchies etc. As happened in real life. Otherwise we'll end up with the Holy Roman Emperor or the Pope (it'll happen, just wait) gaining all of Jerusalem or Spain and then handing it out to their own vassals who weren't on the crusade, while people who actually contributed to the crusade get nothing but a little prestige boost.

I think it has to be this way because of the one-liege mechanics. If you're, say, the Duke of Brittany, you wouldn't want your Counts going off on crusade, getting a Duchy there, and then suddenly taking their original county out of your realm. Or, the opposite: having the newly conquered be a patchwork of France, the HRE etc. because the counties were given to vassals of different kings.

 

[Calbrenar]

So the highest warscore person will get everything? What if you don't want to accept peace until you get rid of all the heathens and own every single territory?

 

[Alerias]

Extremely interesting! I wonder what happens if a Kingdom is split between several Muslim rulers though. I guess then the crusade would only target one of them but I might be wrong.

Anyhow I really like this.

 

[DominusNovus]

Yay for improved Crusades. Since we're talking about religious wars, I'd like to humbly suggest an idea to Paradox for inclusion in the 1.05 patch. Please disable holy wars by Muslims against Monophysites. It would improve gameplay and be fairly historical. I have a thread in the mod forum for just this idea:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?597804-Simplest-Way-to-Save-Ethiopia

No need to buff the Ethiopians, no need to make them immune to wars at all. Just prevent the easy war, and I think the whole region will play out much more historically. And, if necessary, you could make the reverse true (Monophysites can't Holy War on Muslims) if somehow the Ethiopians manage to blob (which, to be fair, would be a first!).

 

[barny]

Sounds rather promising I must say. But it better not lead to Rome being conquered during the first Crusade.

 

[Drakken]

I think that only people who want to take the cross should leave in a crusade, really. Very few title-holders and next to no Kings should want to leave for the crusade in person -at least at first.

When a crusade is declared, people randomly should gain the trait "Taken the Cross", and them AND ONLY THEM should command troops raised for the Crusade and - from them, gain titles and lands. That would solve the potential problem of Kings or Dukes hoarding titles Outremer.

That, or European Kings and Dukes should be forbidden to have titles Outremer while they are King or Duke.