CK II - 1.05 Development Diary - 1 of 3 - March 30th 2012

[Isaios]

This sounds brilliant! And even though I'm looking forward to better Crusade dynamics, I think the bit about joining in independence wars will be even cooler

 

[riknap]

this.

if I start to see Papacy blobbed up in formerly non-Christian lands because I had a particuarly aggressive Papal AI getting directinvovled in Crusades, I'll facepalm.

And the argument that it would somehow make sense because of the Pope's secular power is made moot by the fact that the Pope had no reason, and would never, get any of his personal power in a Crusade when all he had to do was ssue a command and the majority of Europe would do everything for him. Seriously if I start to see "Papacy" splattered all across the Iberian peninsula, or North Africa, or God forbid Jerusalem falls under direct control of the Vatican, I'll facepalm.

hey, to be fair, the original plan for Jerusalem after the First Crusade was to make it a theocracy under the Papacy (more or less). It was only through John of Ibelin's efforts that a feudal Kingdom of Jerusalem came to be.
That said, won't the Crusades now resolve a bit too fast? Or were there be some balances to make the Crusade less over-powered now.

It would be nice if lesser contributing members could be granted lesser titles within the de jure kingdom automatically. Otherwise if a German gets the Kingdom there's probably little chance of him giving a Duchy to (for example) an unknown Spanish Count, rather than a friend or relative of his own. The First Crusade almost fell apart as various factions refused to cooperate and instead went on a massive landgrab towards the end. It'd be nice to see that simulated by handing out the lesser titles to lesser contributers, rather than letting the new King decide.
It'd also make for an interesting challenge for the player if he ends up as King - how do you unify a (possibly) culturally diverse new Kingdom against the threat of your unfriendly neighbours?

This. Bohemond of Antioch is a nice example.
That said, would there be an option to have the resultant kingdom released as independent? Or is that something the victor has to do himself (and unlikely therefore if the AI wins)

 

[pellegrino4]

Developers got it right now.
Some games and movies alike are much more fun when they are historical.
a feature like attached armies is definitely more historically detailed.

Although I like the idea of each crusading participant getting higher prestige and all that, it would be alot more interesting if they got baronies instead with each liege of their own.

 

[apg]

it would be alot more interesting if they got baronies

Yeah i agree, a more diverse holy land would be good instead of just a blob of one country.

 

[Frezzin]

I would really like to see some improvements and enhancements for multiplayer, specifically with regards to assassinations, title revocation of players, and hot-joining.

I have had to create rules in the two games I GM due to abuse of assassinations by players as they're so easy to do with little negative incentive, as well as a rule to keep players from revoking all titles of a player character and ending their game, or using it to create a huge sum of money and then reassigning titles. The hot-joining would just be nice since right now we have to keep rehosting for drops and that breaks up gameplay.

 

[AllThat4Nothing]

I feel a little silly for saying this, as I've been generally pleased with CKII since day 1, more so than any other PDox title; but I really think they should work on cleaning out the bugs and inconsistencies that already exist before they start adding new features and mechanic.

 

[Grave Digger]

I hope the "relegious defence" cb will get an improvement, so the crusade dont end up eating one Muslim Kingdom at a time.

Also this idea sounds nice:

It would be nice if lesser contributing members could be granted lesser titles within the de jure kingdom automatically. Otherwise if a German gets the Kingdom there's probably little chance of him giving a Duchy to (for example) an unknown Spanish Count, rather than a friend or relative of his own. The First Crusade almost fell apart as various factions refused to cooperate and instead went on a massive landgrab towards the end. It'd be nice to see that simulated by handing out the lesser titles to lesser contributers, rather than letting the new King decide.
It'd also make for an interesting challenge for the player if he ends up as King - how do you unify a (possibly) culturally diverse new Kingdom against the threat of your unfriendly neighbours?

There could be two ways I can imagine right now.

The first: The one with the most warscore gets the Kingdom Title plus the Main duchy plus the counties in the main duchy (Jerusalem would be: Kingdom and duchy of jerusalem and the counties of the duchy of Jerusalem) while the rest is split up between the remaining crusaders.

The second: Everything is united under the Kingdom and you get offered to keep a few titles, but have to give up your old holdings (only if you already have a liege) or just get vassalized by the Kingdom of Jerusalem.


Another idea would be to combine these things. Imagine the first idea only with the addition to get better/more titles if you give your old titles up.


Edit:

I feel a little silly for saying this, as I've been generally pleased with CKII since day 1, more so than any other PDox title; but I really think they should work on cleaning out the bugs and inconsistencies that already exist before they start adding new features and mechanic.

I think they will be also bug fixing. But I doubt they will be talking about this in the dev diaries.

 

[AllThat4Nothing]

I think they will be also bug fixing. But I doubt they will be talking about this in the dev diaries.

fortunately they list fixes when patches come out so I'll be looking out

 

[Romtos]

Large improvements. I like it.

 

[Johan]

I think they will be also bug fixing. But I doubt they will be talking about this in the dev diaries.

the list is pretty big

 

[AllThat4Nothing]

the list is pretty big

well that's more good news then!

 

[Arko]

I think the reason to be concerned is that pope can afford to buy any mercenaries he wants. Papal mercenaries joining crusades are not something you want to see. And you dont want Jerusalem to be part of Papal states.

Exactly this. He can participate but he shouldn't be in any way the "winner" IMO

 

[ozzman]

good! I hope this update change the way catholic church works, like adding the curia and the college of cardinals

 

[nOxr]

.

Will contribution score be implemented for other kind of wars too?

One scenario is obviously when you accept an allies call for war and then just don't help him. So if your contribution score is 0 or very low you could get opinion hits or something.

Another is when your liege is useless and you have to save him/her but he/she gets all the glory.

This is a great idea! It should definitively be a shame level of contribution in a war you have joined. If you're under that level you ought to lose prestige.

 

[Geredis]

When it comes to crusades, as a lesser count or similar who joins in, will you have a chance to gain counties or baronies within the Holy Land, and perhaps somehow manage to have a dual-allegiance in some fashion, to both your de facto European liege (for the main demesne) as well as the de facto liege in the Holy Land that might hold sway over the papally invested titles that you get in the aftermath of the war? I know it's very much a long shot to have this branching liege system, but I'd say it'd be most interesting given the relative opening-up of the crusades, or at least a way to offer titles to courtiers or dynasty members, or whoever, and then gift that county - at the time of its bestowal, instead of later on through a separate diplomatic action, gift it to the 'rightful' liege. Of course, this is if gifting titles is even possible to 'foreign' or unaffiliated rulers.

 

[Arko]

I hope the "relegious defence" cb will get an improvement, so the crusade dont end up eating one Muslim Kingdom at a time.

Also this idea sounds nice:




There could be two ways I can imagine right now.

The first: The one with the most warscore gets the Kingdom Title plus the Main duchy plus the counties in the main duchy (Jerusalem would be: Kingdom and duchy of jerusalem and the counties of the duchy of Jerusalem) while the rest is split up between the remaining crusaders.

The second: Everything is united under the Kingdom and you get offered to keep a few titles, but have to give up your old holdings (only if you already have a liege) or just get vassalized by the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

Another idea would be to combine these things. Imagine the first idea only with the addition to get better/more titles if you give your old titles up.

1-winner participation score is under 50% : he gets the kingdom title +51% of the land (to limit usurpation and internal conflicts ; djihad should be enough to deal with) + duchies attached to this land. Other participants over 10% may receive a piece of land, under 10% "only" prestige/piety/gold.

2-winner participation score is over 50% : same but with a land bonus equal to his score over 50%. Other participants over 10% may receive a piece of land, under 10% "only" prestige/piety/gold.

 

[principiis]

Thanks for the update, Johan! Sounds like 1.05's gonna be awesome, and the DLC character editor looks pretty sweet as well.

Quick question for you: what's the schedule look like for 1.05 and character-editor DLC for the Mac version? I know you probably can't comment on the progress of the Mac beta to date, but it'd be nice for us Mac users to know if future patches/DLC are going to have simultaneous cross-platform releases.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Don't forget an icon for Zoroastrianism -- it's the only religion group without its own icon. hmy:

 

[Johan]

Thanks for the update, Johan! Sounds like 1.05's gonna be awesome, and the DLC character editor looks pretty sweet as well.

Quick question for you: what's the schedule look like for 1.05 and character-editor DLC for the Mac version? I know you probably can't comment on the progress of the Mac beta to date, but it'd be nice for us Mac users to know if future patches/DLC are going to have simultaneous cross-platform releases.

DLC should be working fine immediately for Mac.

 

[oilers41]

This is so much sooner than i had expected! High fives for paradox